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Posted: 15th April 2008 16:55
Catalans: on-field success
There was concern and criticism when the Catalans Dragons were given a place in Super League at the expense of say Widnes, Castleford or Salford. It is still a little early to say whether it's been successful yet, but their on-field progress has been impressive.
Phil Clarke
Quotes of the week
As every week passes, we become closer to the date when the RFL will announce the successful applicants for a Super League licence in 2009.
If you've been watching Boots 'n' All you will have seen Angela Powers' reports on the clubs that she's visited and the strengths and weaknesses of their applications.
The century-long debate about the expansion of the game out of its so-called heartlands continues to rage.
What do we gain by allowing new teams into the competition?
What are the risks involved?
What do they need to do to be competitive within the first three years?
Most of the answers to those questions and the many others that I've neglected could be found in the South of France.
There was concern and criticism when the Catalans Dragons were given a place in Super League at the expense of say Widnes, Castleford or Salford. It is still a little early to say whether it's been successful yet, but their on-field progress has been impressive.
They made it to the Carnegie Challenge Cup final last season and currently sit third in the table approaching the halfway stage. With successive away wins at Huddersfield and Wigan it looks as though they've arrived as a competitive force.
It would take a far greater investigation into their finances, facilities and development programmes to give an accurate picture of the club, but there are some positive indicators.
Critics may say that they are too reliant on their overseas players. Their tries at Wigan were scored by Clint Greenshields, Justin Murphy, Dane Carlaw and Jerome Guisset.
You could say that all four are Australian, the first three definitely so. They also have one of the best coaches in the competition that again was imported from Australia a few years ago.
Nevertheless there is a feeling that French rugby league is starting to grow after a decade of decline.
One of the most difficult questions that the RFL faces concerns another French team. We are led to believe that an application for a Super League licence in 2009 has been submitted by Toulouse.
I have not seen the application but know that as the fourth largest city in France and the home of the aviation giant Airbus there is lots of money in the region.
It is also the home of a successful rugby union team, which I often watch on Sky Sports in the Heineken Cup, who are rumoured to be the richest rugby club in the world.
Nobody can be certain of the future. Competition for places is a good thing, whether you're talking about a place in the team or a licence for the league.
I just wonder whether we need to do all we can to support the French for the next few years to give them a chance. The Heineken Cup is huge now and we need to see if we can learn from it.
REFEREES ON THE RISE
Hi Phil, A quick question for you... the RFL is keen to promote homegrown talent in a bid to help Great Britain's competitiveness and to get more youngsters involved nationally. Should they also be looking to do the same for referees? On Friday night, for the second time in two years an Australian referee played a large part in deciding who would win a match. Two very questionable decisions were made in succession to give Catalans victory at the JJB. Surely this is unacceptable? Considering this is not the first time that this has happened, shouldn't the RFL be looking to promote another British referee up from NL1 to replace him? Regards, Matt
PHIL SAYS: The recruitment of match officials is a vital part of the growth and development of rugby league in this country. Your question focuses on the highest level of Domestic competition, but it is first worth considering the need for referees at junior, amateur and student level. I often think that some of the people on the sidelines at junior and amateur games that I have witnessed, need to go to their doctors.
Why would any sane or reasonable person verbally abuse a man who is giving up his time for free to officiate a match? What do they honestly think that they are achieving by criticising a referee to the point that he stops doing it? I would like to take this opportunity to remind parents/grandparents/guardians etc of the need to show some respect to the referee, even if he gets it completely wrong.
If we look at the specifics of your question though Matt, I would like to disagree. After watching the match very carefully on DVD (with the advantage of being able to pause, rewind and move forward frame by frame) I cannot agree with you. I do not think that the referee gave a victory to the Catalans. Firstly, the Dragons have lost two games this year in the last minute of the match, and have used that experience to make themselves tougher in the closing stages of games, both when they're in front and when they're behind. We should recognise their improvement as a team in Super League, who like Wigan at Huddersfield, were able to score twice in the last five minutes.
I can only guess which decisions that you were referring to and imagine that one was for the last try. Some Wigan fans claim that Calderwood was taken out in the air. In slow-motion that does not seem to be the case. Both Catalans players appear to be in the air attempting to either catch or tap back the ball. Both Croker and Pelo have their eyes on the ball, not on Calderwood.
In the lead-up to Guisset's try, Catalans were awarded a penalty for what appeared to be offside. I don't think that you could claim this gifted a win to the Dragons. The penalty count ended up with Wigan penalised eight times and Catalan nine. There was one incident mid-way through the second half when a Wigan player was dragged over the sideline. However, we'll look at this on Boots 'n All this week and see that the referee was again correct.
Some people have said that I am still a Wigan fan in the commentary box. Perhaps my answer here will demonstrate that I attempt to provide fair, honest and accurate analysis.
DRAFT ON TAP
Hi Phil, in view of all the injuries to players at the moment and the impact this is having on clubs may I ask what you think of creating an open register of fringe players and reserve grade players from all clubs that could be utilised by the rugby league for the benefit of the clubs for quick cover of injured players, I say administered by the league to stop one club picking the cream of the fringe talent, a bit like the draft system in American football. This should lessen the impact of the serious nature and long term effects of injury to the clubs competitiveness and prevent a lot of fans getting on the back of the coaching staff and club officials, I think this would help relieve the anxiety that the fans build up and the rugby league should make allowances on the salary cap to help cover the expenses, this would also enable these player to gain invaluable experience of first team rugby and help bring the young talent through I look forward to your views. Brian Wildbore
PHIL SAYS: It's a very interesting idea Brian, but a bit too radical for me. Before we start to change the rules, alter the Salary Cap etc. I think that we need to know a bit more about the injuries that are taking place. Are they sustained in training or in matches? Do they occur at the point of contact or just when running freely (e.g. Luke George at Wakefield/Chris Bridge at St Helens for Warrington)?
What point in the match do they happen? Are they more common in forwards or backs? Are you more likely to be injured if you're under 23 or over 23 years old? These are just some of the questions that the game needs to look into with a detailed injury audit.
All of the Super League clubs have full-time squads with approximately 25 players. In addition they have 30 more players contracted to the club in their second and third teams. After 11 Rounds of Super League the only team that has selected more than 25 players in their games so far is Hull FC. I appreciate that a club could get their injuries in one position and need to look at short-term recruitment, but I believe that each club takes into account the likelihood of injury and plan accordingly.
Dialogue exists between the clubs and I remember Leeds helping Harlequins in the past when they needed additional players. I don't think that we need a central clearing house for surplus players.
We are also seeing another effect that the Salary Cap has on the clubs. It forces them to invest in rehabilitation and provide the best possible medical care. They need their players available for selection and they need the younger ones who come in to be ready for action at a week's notice.
Got a question for Phil? Either send it via the feedback form at the bottom of the page or send it in HERE or to skysports.club@bskyb.com.
Several Super League clubs have been warned to improve or risk losing their top flight licence in 2011.
Bradford forward Sam Burgess has been ruled out of the World Cup because he needs shoulder surgery.
Tim Smith could make his Wigan debut on Friday as the Warriors take on Huddersfield in the only Super League fixture this weekend.
Salford have celebrated the award of a Super League licence by signing prop Ray Cashmere from North Queensland Cowboys.
Shaun Edwards believes Celtic Crusaders can emulate Catalans Dragons and prove a success in the Super League.
Comments
Gez Moyles says...
Phil im all for expansion in our super league but as teams from France are concerned i think its wrong on 2 counts, 1: stopping teams like Castleford, Widnes and Salford the teams that made English rugby league what it is today from competing at the highest level and 2: i think its out of order forcing the fans of rugby league (with which many arent as well off as your football fans) to have to pay a fortune just to go see there team play one game, i know people who have had to sacrafice 2 to 3 other games just show they could show there support for thereteam in France which i think is bang out of order, if French teams are staying in our super league i think there should be some sort of financial package in place for the hard working fans of our clubs to be able to afford to go and support there club without having to miss out on other important games. cheers Phil take care matey
Posted 17:18 23rd June 2008
Ray Neadley says...
Phil i think mick potter will make a great coach of the st's, as long as he's given time especially 2 blood the youngsters cos they've got a great bunch second only 2 my beloved Hull, where if fans gave sharpy the chance they'll see what a great job he's doing and what he's doing for the future of my club
Posted 23:06 23rd April 2008
Al Davis says...
Before Les Catalans came into Super League, there were only about 2 French players in Super League, one of which was Jerome Guisett (Who by the way Phil is 100% French, his career just happened to start in Australia). The addition of Catalans has meant that on most weekends we have around 14 French players competing in Super League. And given Catalans position on the table, it looks like these Frenchman are holding their own. So I believe Toulouse can develop another 10 or 12 quality French players in the next few years if they are added to Super League. I have far more confidence in their ability to find enough home grown players, than Celtic Crusaders will in Wales.
Posted 16:36 20th April 2008
Barry Watson says...
Perhaps Rachel Andrews can tell us where in France she lives ? She seems to know precious little about the history of RL in France & the struggle it has had against vested interests, since 1934 but especially after the second world war. Perhaps she could read a book called The Forbidden Game (or 'Le Jeu Interdit' in French) then comment on matters. For her information RL was omitted from many French media outlets as a matter of course, in the 1990s the motorsport correspondent of L'Equipe was a Carpentras supporter but the editor told him there would be no RL mentioned whilst he was editor. How do you expect people to know about something when that attitude prevails ? FWIW I don't believe the infrastructure is there presently for a second French side in SL but who knows in 3 years time ?
Posted 11:41 19th April 2008
Gary Baker says...
Rachel, you neglect to mention where abouts in France you have moved to. If it is not the south then i'm afraid you may be mistaken in your belief that the French do not want SL. In case you didn't know the last team to beat Australia in a test-series (not a tri-series) is, yes that's right, France. The game there was booming until the Nazi invasion and the Vichy collaboration. Read 'The Forbidden Game' it's a real eye opener.
Posted 21:33 18th April 2008
Alan Dean says...
Gary Baker's patronising comment about Widnes and Leigh and their Super League support "until they eventually die a death" is so far off the mark it is really laughable. RL support, Mr Baker, will NOT die in Widnes or Leigh - it will in France and Wales but not the traditional RL heartlands. Are you perhaps, Mr Baker, A Wakefield or Castleford supporter running scared of losing your place in SL due to inferior facilities?
Posted 13:52 18th April 2008
Peter Arrowsmith says...
Ian, you will find that Leigh have a ground that is a modern facility that is already built in which they will be playing in 2009. The same can't be said for Wakefield, Castleford, Celtic, Salford, St Helens etc....I could go on. But you can bet they will all get in before Leigh. With regards to Gary Bakers comments my view is that Widnes attract a decent support given the product available at NL1 level and while in Super League they attracted an average attendance of 6,700 while being a very poorly run club. Under their new owner the club is a lot more professional and will expand the supporter base into Cheshire and South Liverpool. Widnes's support is comparable to that of Huddersfield, Wakefield and Harlequins and has always been better than Salford's when they were in Super League. Far from being ecstatic at the growth of the sport in France I would be a little more cautious as Rugby League history is littered with expansion clubs that went out of business such as Cardiff Dragons,Carlisle, Mansfield, Scarborough, Paris St Germain etc etc
Posted 13:40 18th April 2008
Daniel C says...
I agree with Ian Land, It's becomimg a bit ridiculous. I am from Hull (Hull KR fan) and would certainly not favour just the one club in Hull. I would go as far as to say I would probably turn my back on the sport completely. As for the French, they hardly bring money to the english clubs because the away support appears shocking. Some great teams in NL1 who would bring more away support and a lot more banter between the fans.
Posted 13:04 18th April 2008
G Lewis says...
Reading the comments of Gary Baker makes me wonder why he singles out Leigh and Widnes and their "5000" spectators. They both averaged considerably higher crowds that that when in their relegation super league season. Why not look at the crowds of Harlequins and question why Celtic Crusaders are still only attracting a little over 1000 despite free ticket schemes and a probable license for 2009. Yes lets expand RL as much as possible, but not at the expense of old established teams who have, in his own words, progressed and grown, and now have excellent facilities and good business plans. Make the "we will have a new stadium in a few years" brigade toe the line and give specific completion dates for their proposals.
Posted 12:50 18th April 2008
Ian Land says...
In reply to Nigel Moss - why don't Leeds and Bradford join together aswell? While we're at it how about St Helens and Wigan joining forces? I hear the Saints want a new ground - perfect solution! Maybe then we could extend invitations out to any tom, dick or harry to join Super League. Why stop at Wales? Let's try and get a team from Australia over. And Spain, yeah they're a big rugby league nation. Let's try and 'invent' clubs from all over the world to join in the festivities. Forget about the history and local rivalry of the clubs you would like to merge. Or course, that means nothing to people on the outside who want a rugby league club in their local area "just to see what all the fuss is about". What happens when the interest wanes and the attendences drop? People will regret forcing the founders of the sport to merge together. It's been known for a long time up in the North that the SL authorities have wanted Wakefield out of the SL. Apparently, this 'little club' steeped in history doesn't conform to the glitz, glamour and money image that the SL like to promote. The whole licensing fiasco is geared around getting old clubs like Castleford and Wakefield out and getting newly formed teams (with nice new shiny EMPTY stadiums) in. It's a joke. The heritage of the history of the sport is being trampled on. Why? Money. We're turning into Football. I don't expect my views will aired on here though, which is unfortunate. PS Nigel, Castleford have already got permission for a new stadium. Cuiously, they didn't get the "points" for that in their licensing grade on Sky Sports. I notice Leigh got points for their planned new stadium though. Strange that.
Posted 13:03 17th April 2008
Carl Mitchell says...
Re the comments made by Nigel Moss...although i agree the clubs in the national leagues could be considered as 'feeder clubs' for those in SL, i totally disagree with your 'vision' of a merged club in Hull. Hull as a city has a population of around 215k and a sub region population of over a million people. Both the Hull clubs in the SL are viable products - Hull FC recently announcing one of the best sponsorship deals in RL history. East Yorkshire is a hot bed for RL and always has been. The demand in the city for two SL clubs is there (see the attendance figures, merchandise sales, season ticket sales etc) therefore your view of one Hull club is flawed.
Posted 12:23 17th April 2008
Nigel Moss says...
I agree with your comments Phil, a second team in France would hopefully create a 'local' rivalry. I also think that Superleague has one glaring ommission from its heartlands and that is a team in Cumbria. We need to get the Welsh on board and then work out how to expand into Scotland and Ireland. Superleague should be a n elite competition being fed by the traditional names playing in the National league maintaining club identities and developing younger players (playing to academy age groupings maybe.) e.g. one SL club in Hull fed by Hull FC and Hull KR, one SL club being fed by Cas, Wakey and Fev, a Manchester club fed by Salford, Swinton, Oldham etc. This is probably too radical for some but is it better to have a SL club in an area as opposed to risking your club not being included? Wakefield, Castleford and Featherstone have all applied, none have a really good stadium or masses of finance. The above suggestion with the council building a new stadium for SL near the M62 would be far better. I await the tirade of abuse from Hull, West Yorkshire and Manchester.
Posted 15:47 16th April 2008
Lee Coan says...
Hi Phil, just an opinion from yourself really. What do you think is going on with Matt King? Do you believe he is homesick or taking plenty of time to settle to life in Super League?
Posted 13:45 16th April 2008
Rachel Andrews says...
It's all good and well the Rugby League officials saying that they want more French teams to promote rugby league in France but is it actually wanted there? I came to live in France last September and have been to watch a few of the Catalan Dragons matches. However, i have been horrified to find that very little of the French actually know what rugby league is. Even less of them know that actual French teams exist and that one of them is in the Super League and even fewer still have any desire to see rugby league develop in the country. Maybe the rugby league officials would be better off actually asking what the french people want rather than trying to force the game upon them. What they maybe dont understand is that the French are a nation of traditionalists who dont take kindly to English ways being imposed upon them. Perhaps if the RLO actually went to France and interacted with the people they may see this instead of deluding themselves with this idea of expanding the game ther. Our game first needs expanding in our own terrirtory and clubs whch already exist but are struggling need to be helped rather than killing them off. Yes Catalans haven't had bad crowds- however maybe this is something to do with charging around 10 euros less for women than men........ ( Is this even allowed?? equal rights and so on....)
Posted 11:48 16th April 2008
Mark Mcdonagh says...
I disagree Paul, the best of NRL do not leave Australia, especially if they want to continue their international career. The salary cap also stops teams like Wigan in the late 80's buying the best to win the title. However, the time is not right yet for another french team - Catalans are doing a good job but still need to prove themselves although the foundations are there. I think the gap between Super league and the national leagues is getting wider, and I dont believe any of those applying have the fan base or the players to succeed.
Posted 09:10 16th April 2008
Paul Abraham says...
If another team is entered, that just means a larger drain on player stocks here in Australia. We can't offer as much money so we suffer more than anyone when rich super league clubs want to buy quality players. If you really want to grow the game, stop poaching aussies and start breeding some of your own talent.
Posted 05:24 16th April 2008
Gary Baker says...
Enjoyed the column this week Phil, especially with regards to the strengths of French RL. I, like you it seems, am ecstatic about the growth of the game at a professional level down there and I am undecided as to whether the time is right for a second pro-level club in the country. But with a positive frame of mind I say why not go for it, provided that the infrastructures are in place? Our great game has a reputation for innovations with everything from rule changes to what days of the week our clubs play! I realise that in the past we have been too quick to expand sometimes, and then into areas in which there was nothing behind a side but a stadium and a big-money backer. But France, like Wales, is just too good an opportunity to miss. I'm sure someone once said "if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got." Sure, sticking a Widnes or a Leigh in Super League will keep their 5,000 supporters happy until they eventually die a death as the game progresses and grows, but why do this when we have the potential to expand the international game at both international and domestic level. I also agree with your comments on referees too. If only you could stop Stevo from harping on about the minuta of every little decision...
Posted 01:30 16th April 2008
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