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A tale of one city

Can you answer Tyler's teaser this week?

Stockport County - Martin Tyler Posted 17th May 2011 view comments

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Manchester: a city of celebration on Saturday

Manchester: a city of celebration on Saturday

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Tyler's Starting Stat - Champions confirmed

I was at Ewood Park on Saturday where not only did Manchester United clinch the title, but several individual landmarks were reached.

Rio Ferdinand made his 600th career appearance, Michael Carrick made his 150th Premier League appearance for Man Utd and Ryan Giggs made his 573rd Premier League appearance, which is a new all-time record, beating the previous one set by David James.

Wayne Rooney scored his 15th goal of the season and his 102nd in the Premier League for United, which puts him joint-second with Paul Scholes in their list of Premier League scorers. Giggs is the leader with 105.

Brett Emerton's goal was the 50th they've conceded in 58 games (all competitions) and they finish the Premier League season with just five away wins - their fewest since 1990/91 when they also won just five on the road. The match was also their 10th away draw - which is the most they've had since they drew 11 away games in 1986/87 when they finished 11th.

Meanwhile, Dimitar Berbatov started the weekend on 22 goals in all competitions, but is now down to 21 after the dubious goals panel took one off him. The panel announced their rulings from December to April and a strike against Sunderland has now been declared an Anton Ferdinand own goal and the Bulgarian is now just one ahead of Javier Hernandez (20 goals in all competitions).

Berbatov has been knocked down to 20 goals in the Premier League, but remains two ahead of Carlos Tevez in the Golden Boot race as the Manchester City forward had a goal taken away as well!

A CITY UNITED
Hi Martin, great column as always! It was a great day for Manchester on Saturday with the city picking up the Premier League and the FA Cup trophies. How many times in history have two different clubs from the same city won these two trophies? Also, has a city ever won all three domestic competitions in a single season? Thanks, Michael Ball

MARTIN SAYS: We have found at least six previous instances of two different clubs from the same city winning the FA Cup and the league championship in the same season. Liverpool and Everton have shared the domestic trophies between them on three occasions, while, as you can see from the table below, London clubs have also achieved the feat.

Furthermore, this is not the first time the two Manchester clubs have claimed the two major domestic trophies in the same season. Back in 1955/56, United won the league and City won the Cup, just as they did this season. Please note, we have not counted the 11 seasons when the Double was achieved in our list.

Different clubs from the same city winning the league and the FA Cup in the same season:

SeasonChampionsFA Cup winners
1905/06LiverpoolEverton
1955/56Man UtdMan City
1965/66LiverpoolEverton
1983/84LiverpoolEverton
1990/91ArsenalTottenham
2004/05ChelseaArsenal
2010/11Man UtdMan City

NB: Some of you might point to the 1919/20 season when West Brom won the league and Aston Villa won the FA Cup. I haven't included this because West Bromwich is officially part of Sandwell and isn't considered part of the city of Birmingham.

To answer your other question, there have been four occasions when all three domestic trophies, including the League Cup, have gone to the same city. However, we have never seen an instance of them being shared between three clubs from the same city (although in theory only London could possibly achieve such a feat):

SeasonChampionsFA Cup winnersLeague Cup winners
1970/71ArsenalArsenalTottenham
1983/84LiverpoolEvertonLiverpool
1997/98ArsenalArsenalChelsea
2004/05ChelseaArsenalChelsea

AWAY AT THE TOP
Martin, now that the title race is over and Manchester United have completed their away schedule, do they have the worst away record of any Premier League champions in terms of points, wins and losses? Could you also give a summary of the away records of past champions as a comparison? Many Thanks, Matthew Blive (Arsenal fan)

MARTIN SAYS: Our friends at Opta have looked into this for you and in terms of wins and points, this Manchester United side have the worst away record of any of the previous Premier League champions. They have picked up just 25 points on the road, an average of 1.32 points per game. The previous low was the Arsenal side of 1997/98, which picked up six more points and averaged 1.71 points per game. Furthermore, United have won just five of their 19 away games which beats the previous title-winners' low of eight away wins. However, this team did score more goals on the road than five of the previous 19 champions.

The last team to win the league with just five away wins was Liverpool in 1977 - and interestingly they also won the European Cup that year.

Only two title-winning sides have gone through a campaign unbeaten on the road - that was the Arsenal teams of 2001/02 and 2003/04 - but the best away record in Premier League history belongs to Chelsea's champions of 2004/05. Jose Mourinho's men won 15 of their 19 away games and picked up 48 points.

Premier League title winners - away records:

TeamSeasonPWDLFAGDPTSPTS/game
Chelsea2004/0519153137928482.53
Arsenal2001/02191450371126472.47
Manchester United2006/07191333371522422.21
Manchester United1999/0019133338299422.21
Arsenal2003/04191180331221412.16
Manchester United2008/09191243251114402.11
Manchester United1993/94211353412516442.10
Chelsea2005/06191135251312361.89
Manchester United2007/08191054331518351.84
Chelsea2009/10191045351817341.79
Manchester United1996/9719973382711341.79
Manchester United1992/93211074281711371.76
Manchester United1998/9919892351916331.74
Manchester United1995/96191036372611331.74
Manchester United2000/0119964301911331.74
Manchester United2002/0319964322210331.74
Blackburn1994/9521106526188361.71
Arsenal1997/981987425232311.63
Manchester United2010/1119510429254251.32

POINTS POSER
Dear Martin, You are the voice of the Premiership! I love your column, it's a great read! I was looking at the Premier League table this season and with so many teams dropping points against each other, it got me thinking is this the lowest points total for the Premier League? For instance, last year's points total of the league was 1035 points! So therefore could you tell me which is the highest total and which is lowest since the league went to 20 teams? Mustafa Tary (Chelsea fan)

MARTIN SAYS: Thanks for the question, Mustafa. Last season's points total of 1035 was not the lowest since the Premier League was reduced to 20 teams at the start of 1995-96 campaign. That accolade goes to the 1996-97 season when the total number of points amassed was 1018.

This was the year in which Middlesbrough were deducted three points for failing to fulfil a fixture against Blackburn. But if the Teessiders had not been hit with that penalty, the total would still have been the lowest in the history of 20-team Premier League at 1021 - four fewer than the 1998-99 sum of 1025.

In theory, the 2010-11 season could break that record. I am writing this ahead of Manchester City's midweek game with Stoke and if the remaining 11 matches end in draws this campaign's grand total will be 1020, though that is highly unlikely.

The highest possible total this term - if there are 11 victories from the remaining 11 matches - will be 1031, which would still be the third lowest in history, behind 1996-97 and the 1998-99 sum of 1025 points. That shows there have been more draws than usual this year.

The highest total in history was in 2005-06 when 1063 points were accumulated, followed by 2002-03 (1050) and 1999-00 (1048).

Points totals in the Premier League:

2010-11: 998 (at present)
2009-10: 1035*
2008-09: 1043
2007-08: 1040
2006-07: 1042
2005-06: 1063
2004-05: 1030
2003-04: 1032
2002-03: 1050
2001-02: 1039
2000-01: 1039
1999-00: 1048
1998-99: 1025
1997-98: 1045
1996-97: 1018**
1995-96: 1042

* total would have been 1044 if Pompey weren't deducted nine points for entering administration
** total would have been 1021 if Middlesbrough weren't deducted three points for failing to fulfil a fixture

HALF-TIME HAMMERS
Dear Martin, Love both your column and your commentary. After watching my treasured West Ham surrender a half-time lead yet again against Wigan (to get relegated!), I wondered what the Premier League table would look like if all the games finished at half-time? Would we have stayed up? Thanks, Ronnie Jones, West Ham fan.

MARTIN SAYS: Yes Ronnie, if games finished at half-time then West Ham would be on 42 points - and would now be safe from relegation.

As the table below shows, the bottom three would be made up of West Brom, Wigan and FA Cup finalists Stoke, a vast difference for the Baggies and the Potters who are sitting comfortably in mid-table. In fact, West Brom would have just 32 points based on their half-time performances.

Both Sunderland and Wolves would be residing in the top half of the division in seventh and ninth respectively, but the most dramatic movers would be Blackburn.

Rovers head into their final Premier League game of the season still in danger of suffering relegation, but if matches ended after the opening period then Steve Kean's men would be in a Champions League spot!

Some things do stay the same, though - the league title would still be headed back to Old Trafford which proves that Sir Alex Ferguson's men don't always save their best for the latter stages of games!

TeamPlayedWDLFAGDPTS
Manchester United372012533122172
Manchester City361713631131864
Arsenal371712833171663
Blackburn37131952015558
Chelsea371415831191257
Sunderland371414926141256
Liverpool37101982020049
Aston Villa371116102226-449
Wolves371310142228-649
Tottenham37101892525048
Newcastle371113132527-246
Bolton37916121820-243
Blackpool371013142734-743
Everton37915132323042
West Ham371012152129-842
Fulham371011161826-841
Birmingham37817121423-941
Stoke36615151525-1033
Wigan37518141525-1033
West Brom37614171634-1832

SIGNING OF THE SEASON
Hi Martin, can you settle a debate between me and my cousins please? We want to know who has been the best signing this season in the Premier League based on how many points they've won their teams. I'm a Villa fan and I reckon Darren Bent, but my cousins think Javier Hernandez has been the best. I'd also like you to look at Rafael Van der Vaart for Spurs and Peter Odemwingie for West Brom. Where would they be without the goals of those players? David Byrd (Aston Villa fan).

MARTIN SAYS: It all depends on what you constitute as better; saving a team from relegation or winning the title? I think I'll let you decide that but with a little bit of help from Opta we've looked at the four players you mention, and how many points they've earned their respective teams.

As you rightly pointed out, Darren Bent has been in excellent form since arriving at Villa Park in January. The England striker has scored nine goals for Gerard Houllier's men and those goals have accounted for nine points. Without his goals Villa would currently be 19th in the table with just 36 points, three points from safety.

In comparison Manchester United would be 14 points worse off without Hernandez's goals this season and nowhere near the summit of the Premier League. The Mexican has scored 13 times in his debut season, and if you subtract his goals then the Red Devils would be fourth in the table on 63 points behind neighbours Manchester City.

Rafael Van der Vaart has also hit the back of the net 13 times this season in an impressive debut campaign and Spurs would be 13 points worse off at this point and in mid-table had it not been for his goals. They'd be on 46 points along with Bolton and West Brom.

However, if we're judging the players purely on points gained for their teams then it's hard to look past Peter Odemwingie. West Bromwich Albion are comfortably sitting in 11th in the table, but would be 17 points worse off and heading back to the Championship had it not been for the Nigeria internationals 15 goals! If you discount his goals from the record then the Baggies would be rock bottom with just 29 points!

KOP CHAMPIONS
Love the column Mr Tyler, I was watching the celebrations after we won the league at Ewood Park and the camera zoomed in on Michael Owen, so I guess my question for you is, how many ex-Liverpool players have won the Premier League? Anelka comes to mind, but I can't think of anyone else. Sainath Rajagopal (Manchester Utd fan)

MARTIN SAYS: You are correct Sanith in your observation that both Michael Owen (2010/11) and Nicolas Anelka (2009/10) have gone on to win the Premier League after playing for Liverpool. However, Anelka also arrived at Anfield with a winner's medal having won the title with Arsenal in the 1997/98 season.

In total there are six men who have represented Liverpool and won a Premier League title, including two in the current squad. Both Joe Cole (2004/05, 2005/06, 2009/10) and Glen Johnson (2004/05) joined the Reds having lifted the trophy with Chelsea.

Paul Ince (1992/93, 1993/94), also arrived on Merseyside in 1997 with two medals from his days with Manchester United.

Finally, I think you can also add the name of Kenny Dalglish to the list, as the Liverpool legend won the Premier League as manager of Blackburn in 1994/95.

Tyler's teaser

Fill in your answers to Martin's teaser using the feedback form below - and keep those questions coming in!

Comments (35)

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Michael Davey (Middlesbrough fan) says...

Martin, A question that came up the other day and thought you would be the right man to answer it. How many current premier league players have Champions League winners medals? Also, are there any other players in the rest of the English Football league that have a medal as well? Thanks

Posted 12:00 23rd May 2011

Priya Ramesh (Chelsea fan) says...

Hi Mr Tyler, great column. Birmingham got relegated today, being defending champions of Carling Cup. My question is how many teams have got relegated while being defending champions of a major trophy in English football?

Posted 19:08 22nd May 2011

Eliott Rhodes (Aston Villa fan) says...

Martin, all of my University friends get involved with your weekly teaser and it's great fun. I personally enjoy reading all of the facts and trivia that you bring up each week. Being a Villa fan I've had effectively 3 managers this season, (With MacDonald, Houiller and McAllister), and finished a respectable 9th place! But what I want to know is, what is the best finish for a team who have changed managers during the season? I'm looking at how well Liverpool have done with King Kenny in charge and wondering if it's them. Thanks, Eliott.

Posted 18:27 22nd May 2011

Jorge Ward (Manchester United fan) says...

Hi martin I've picked up a few startling similarities between United and Barca in the lead up to the champions league final. We both won our first European cup at wembley and have the oppurtunity to win our fourth there aswell. We have also both scored 303 and conceded 158 goals since the champions league was initiated. (which I think is amazing) Can you think of any more? Jorge

Posted 22:43 21st May 2011

Iain Mcintyre (Sheffield United fan) says...

Hi there could you tell me how many teams have had back to back promitions in the top flight? As a blades fan I can only live in hope!

Posted 22:17 21st May 2011

Craig Thomas (Manchester United fan) says...

Martin, Tomorrow sees Manchester United have their trophy returned to them at Old Trafford against a side who are likely to be relegated. My question, is this the first time either the trophy has been presented against a team relegated at that point or that season's champions have ended the season playing against a relegated team?

Posted 14:12 21st May 2011

Nargis Matthews (Norwich City fan) says...

The answer to the teaser is Keith Gillespie, Mame Biram Diouf, Danny Simpson and John Curtis.

Posted 18:38 20th May 2011

Lee Phillips (Wolverhampton Wanderers fan) says...

If you were to base the premier league around the first 20 minutes of a match what would the table look like? I know that Wolves would surely be 20th.

Posted 17:28 20th May 2011

David Scanlan (Celtic fan) says...

How many players have won the premiership with 2 or more different clubs?

Posted 14:04 20th May 2011

Zamir Dinath (Manchester United fan) says...

Great Column as always.Love ur Commentry Martin nd big fan of ya. i have a question for u.how many times manchester united have won the league title after the world cup year coz i av noticed dat thy always do it.nd how many times?

Posted 10:45 20th May 2011

David Roberts (Manchester City fan) says...

A TALE OF ONE CITY, manchester city only team from manchester

Posted 15:10 19th May 2011

Daniel Marrow (Manchester United fan) says...

Answer to the Teaser: Keith Gillespie Mame Biram Diouf Danny Simpson Robbie Savage

Posted 13:30 19th May 2011

Mark Grindle (Liverpool fan) says...

Hi Martin. Great column. I was wondering if the points total in the respective league campaigns for the finalists of the champions league has any bearing on the outcome? I.e. Inter Milan had 12 more points in Seria A than Bayern Munich did in Bundesliga 09/10. Thanks

Posted 11:07 19th May 2011

Ciaran Galea (Manchester United fan) says...

Hi Martin, predictably brilliant column as always! After watching the Man Utd Wigan game last week I wanted to know which team has the best record over the two games they play each other in the season? Man Utd won 7-1 at home and drew 1-1 at Wigan, so combined they would have won 8-2. What would the table look like if there were only 19 fixtures and all the games had this 'two leg' approach? Thanks!

Posted 23:17 18th May 2011

Dale Charge (Newcastle United fan) says...

Hi Martin. Really enjoy your weekly column. After seeing DJ Campbell move up to 6th in this seasons top scorers of the premier league but with his team Blackpool in the bottom three it got me wondering, which player has been in the top goal scorers on the premier league but with their team in low position of the table?

Posted 22:46 18th May 2011

Priya Ramesh (Chelsea fan) says...

Hi Martin. Amazing column. My question to you is which Premier League team have sent the most number of their players (including youth) out on loan? As a Blues fan, I know that we've sent around 12 players out to various clubs. Thanks.

Posted 19:52 18th May 2011

Priya Ramesh (Chelsea fan) says...

Hi Mr Tyler, amazing column! My question for you is, in the Chelsea v Newcastle match last weekend, out of the 4 goals scored, 3 were scored by defenders, so which team has most goals scored by defenders overall and this season? I believe Chelsea would be quite near the top, with the likes of Ivanovic, Terry and Luiz. Thanks.

Posted 19:41 18th May 2011

James Walsh (Aston Villa fan) says...

Love the column. @David Byrd, Bent has been the best by that reckoning as he has only been at Villa for a portion of the season, whereas Van Der Vaart, Hernandez and Odimwingie have all had full seasons at their respective clubs. Bent's record is unbelievable as he has only played half a season for Villa and therefore wins that contest!

Posted 18:58 18th May 2011

Reuben Uppal (Liverpool fan) says...

Hi Martin, great column as usual! would like to ask who has a better freekick success rate in 2010/2011, lionel messi or cristiano ronaldo? my guess is messi as I think he is a better player and has a better technique

Posted 17:43 18th May 2011

Chad Doherty (Manchester United fan) says...

Hi Martin with everyone questioning the talent and quality in the Man United squad this season in comparison to previous teams, with some people believing united are the best of an under-performing so called 'top 4' and others stating the league has become better and more competative. This could be proven with the points difference from safety and winning the league as the closer the gap the more competative the league is e.g United currently have 77 points and Birmingham are safe on 39 points as it stands. How does a 38 point difference compare with previous League winners since the Premiership began? Many thanks

Posted 15:47 18th May 2011

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