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Hull hot, Spurs not

Tigers' feat, Kop comebacks and Europe's worst

Martin Tyler Posted 23rd October 2008 view comments

Martin Tyler's stats and facts column is back from its international break, offering you statistical gems for the remainder of the campaign.

Sky Sports' voice of football and his back-up team of experts are here to answer your questions and queries on all things statistical and historical from the beautiful game.

It could be on a side in the Premier League or Football League, international scene or European competitions - or it could be about an individual player or manager.

Tottenham: painful times

Tottenham: painful times

If you have spotted something from a game or have been stumped by a pub quiz question, simply email here and Martin will do his best to answer.

Or use the feedback form at the bottom of the page....

Tyler's starting stat
Cruel Britannia

I've just about had time to take in everything that happened at the Britannia Stadium on Sunday, so what better place to start than with a game that had pretty much everything? The 2-1 success was only Stoke's second win in 18 top-flight games and both of those have come this season. On top of that, the 3-2 win over Aston Villa and Sunday's 2-1 success are the only times this season they have opened the scoring, both of those have come from penalties: Liam Lawrence netted from the spot against Villa as Danny Higginbotham did against Spurs... eventually! Individually, Rory Delap's winner was his first Premier League goal since April 2006 and the one he scored for Sunderland in the 2-2 draw with Everton, while Ledley King was left on the bench and left on 199 Premier League appearances. He has been left out of the last five league games, but interestingly has appeared in three UEFA Cup games and one Carling Cup tie in that time. As for Spurs, we have more on them later, but going into the game they had not won in seven; back in 1996 neither had Southampton nor Blackburn. The good news for Spurs fans is that neither of those sides went on to be relegated, but the bad news is they both avoided defeat in their eigth league game - and Tottenham didn't.

POSITIVE WITH A NEGATIVE
Dear Martin, I notice the mighty Hull are currently in a Champions League spot, despite having a goal difference of exactly zero. We've certainly been economical if nothing else this season! It got me wondering, has a team ever finished a Premier League season on negative goal difference and still ended up in the Champions League - because that's surely where the Tigers are heading!! Cheers, Jim Behan (Hull)
MARTIN SAYS:
Surprisingly Jim, there has indeed been one occasion in Premier League history when a team has qualified for the Champions League despite having a negative goal difference. It occurred in the 2004-05 season when Everton finished in fourth place, despite ending the season with a goal difference of -1, in no small part due to a 7-0 thrashing by Arsenal in their penultimate game of the season. Remember that was the season that, as holders, Liverpool qualified in fifth place - and of course the Toffees failed to make the Champions League proper. It is also worth mentioning that in the very first Premier League season, Norwich City finished third in the table with a goal difference of -4. Of course in those days only the champions went into the European Cup and the Canaries had to settle for a place in the UEFA Cup. Indeed, in Premier League history, two other teams have qualified for Europe through their league position having conceded more goals than they scored. West Ham reached the Intertoto Cup - and subsequently the UEFA Cup - after finishing fifth in the 1998-99 season with a -7 goal difference. And Bolton Wanderers qualified for the UEFA Cup after finishing seventh in 2006-07 and ending the season with a goal difference of -5.

CORNERING THE GOAL MARKET
Martin, I am sure there are many more impressive stats on Hull, but I was wondering... have we scored the most goals from corners in the Premier League this season? Mikey Mallard
MARTIN SAYS:
Very astute of you Mikey! Hull have scored four goals from corners so far this season, which is the equal best in the Premier League alongside West Ham. But, the Tigers' feat is more impressive when you consider they have won just 29 corner kicks, which is the second-lowest just above Portsmouth's 25. That gives Hull the leading conversion rate of 0.14 goals per corner, which is ahead of the Hammers' 0.09. These things don't make much sense when written down, but the table below will make it clearer. As ever, the boffins at Opta have been more than helpful with these stats and looking through their figures, I can also bring you another weird and wonderful stat, Mikey. In seven of their eight Premier League games so far, Phil Brown's side have won less corners than the opposition. And the only game when they 'out-cornered' someone was their third of the season when they won seven to Wigan's four - and as I am sure you don't need reminding, Hull lost that 5-0, at home - their only loss to date in the Premier League! Here's the top five when it comes to scoring from corners and yes, Newcastle's does include Richard Dunne's spectacular own goal!

TeamCornersGoalsGoals Per Corner
Hull City2940.14
West Ham4540.09
Newcastle3730.08
West Brom5120.04
Chelsea5220.04

WORSE THAN SPURS?
Martin, I have been getting grief left, right and centre after Sunday, not least from all the Gooners I know. One of them even had the nerve to suggest we are the worst team in Europe! Surely someone, somewhere out there is worse than us? John Fisher MARTIN SAYS:
It's not been the best week - or season - to be a Spurs supporter I am sure, so maybe this will cheer you up. I have scoured the top divisions in the major leagues in Europe and although they are obviously at different stages in their campaigns, by a game or two, I have actually found three teams with less than two points! Of course, that means that like Spurs, they are yet to win a league game, but all you suffering Spurs fans can take comfort from the plight of Turkish side Kocaelispor, Holland's FC Volendam and Trofense of Portugal (pictured). Kocaelispor have played seven games in the Turkcell Super League this year and have drawn just one and lost six with a goal difference of -9. But even they are better off than the other two, who have lost ALL their league games to date. Over in Holland, Volendam have a goal difference of -12 from their six defeats and zero points, while in Portugal Trofense have played one less game but are still pointless after five straight defeats. Mind you, just to temper your joy, all three have one thing in common: they are newly-promoted to their top flights. And I cannot confirm, but would hazard a guess and say none of them have spent the money Spurs have in the summer!

SHARING THE LOAD
Martin, with a quarter of the season almost gone and my fantasy team struggling (OK, I admit I'd never heard of Zaki so didn't pick him!), it seems to me as if the goals have been spread around. I was wondering, who has had the most separate goalscorers so far?Leanne Burroughs
MARTIN SAYS:
I do hope you are not another Tottenham fan because this will be more bad news! It's an interesting question Leanne and one that has thrown up several nice lines. Of course, we have to remember that these stats have been compiled without the dreaded dubious goals panel, who have yet to hold one of their dubious meetings that make dubious decisions and send all our records up in the air! The first thing to notice is that Manchester City have the most separate scorers so far, with their 20 Premier League goals being spread amongst 12 different scorers - including of course, those six different goalscorers in the 6-0 win over Portsmouth. Also, you will notice that Fulham's five goals have come from five different scorers and as you mention Amr Zaki, Wigan have scored 11 goals but have just four different scorers, thanks to the Egyptian's seven Premier League goals. To go back to Tottenham, well they find themselves bottom of this table as well, having had just three scorers so far. It is the same as Portsmouth, but the fact that one of Spurs' goals came from a Robert Huth own goal, technically means only two of their men - Jermaine Jenas and Darren Bent - have found the net in the Premier League. Here is a table showing how many scorers each team has had (where teams have had the same number of scorers we've ranked those who've not profited from own-goals higher, and then the teams who've scored the fewest goals in total). Of course, Manchester United and Fulham have only played seven league games...

TeamNo of ScorersGoalsScorers
Man City1220Elano, Corluka, Sturridge, Ireland, Wright-Phillips, Robinho, Jo, Dunne, Evans, Fernandes, Kompany, Garrido
Chelsea919J Cole, Anelka, Lampard, Deco, Belletti, Carvalho, Kalou, Bosingwa, Malouda
West Ham914Ashton, Bellamy, C Cole, Davenport, Di Michele, Etherington, Neill, Noble, OG (Samba)
Arsenal916Nasri, Van Persie, Denilson, Adebayor, Eboue, Bendtner, Fabregas, Walcott, OG (McShane)
Man Utd812Fletcher, Tevez, Park, Ronaldo, Rooney, Brown, Berbatov, Nani
Stoke810Fuller, Lawrence, Sidibe, Olofinjana, Delap, Leadbitter, OG (Jagielka), OG (Hoyte)
Newcastle79Martins, Owen, Xisco, Taylor, Duff, Ameobi, OG (Dunne)
Hull711Geovanni, Folan, Garcia, King, Turner, Cousin, OG (P Neville)
Liverpool713Torres, Gerrard, Babel, Kuyt, Riera, OG (Pogatetz), OG (W Brown)
Blackburn68Dunn, Santa Cruz, Ooijer, Roberts, Derbyshire, Samba
Everton612Arteta, Yakubu, Osman, Anichebe, Cahill, Fellaini
Fulham55Seol, Hangeland, Gera, Zamora, Murphy
Middlesbrough57Wheater, Mido, Alves, Tuncay, Aliadiere
Bolton58Steinsson, Davies, Elmander, Cahill, Taylor
Aston Villa512Carew, Agbonlahor, Laursen, Reo-Coker, Young
Sunderland57Richardson, Cisse, Chopra, Leadbitter, OG (Bramble)
West Brom47Morrison, Bednar, Brunt, Olsson
Wigan411Heskey, Zaki, Valencia, OG (S Ricketts)
Portsmouth39Defoe, Johnson, Crouch
Tottenham35Jenas, D Bent, OG Huth

KOP COMEBACKS
Dear Martin, Liverpool are certainly the comeback kings this season. I've lost count of how many goals they've scored late on in games. I dread to think what our league position would be without those goals. Can you tell me how many points would we have without those goals in the last 15 minutes? Scouse Paul MARTIN SAYS:
Of course, this is all hypothetical Paul, but it is worth looking at because it a pretty amazing statistic. If all Liverpool's games finished after 75 minutes, Liverpool would have just eight points - that's the same number of points as Everton have picked up so far and they're 16th in the table. If games finished on 75 minutes Liverpool would have won only one match - the Merseyside derby against Everton - and would have lost twice in their opening eight games. In reality they have 20 points, meaning they have picked up 12 points with goals scored in the last 15 minutes of games, which is pretty amazing when you consider they have only played eight games. For those of a certain age, it will cast your mind back a few years to the 1970s and 1980s when Liverpool dominated English football and in doing so, were renowned for grabbing late goals then as well. Here is a table to make things clearer:

VersusScore after 75minsPoints after 75minsActual scoreActual points gained
SunderlandDrawing 0-01Won 1-03 (+2)
MiddlesbroughLosing 1-00Won 2-13 (+3)
Aston VillaDrawing 0-01Drew 0-01 (+0)
Man UtdDrawing 1-11Won 2-13 (+2)
StokeDrawing 0-01Drew 0-01 (+0)
EvertonWinning 2-03Won 2-03 (+0)
Man CityDrawing 2-21Won 3-23 (+2)
WiganLosing 2-10Won 3-23 (+3)

FROM BACK TO FRONT
Hoping you can please help with this one. Causing a lot of debate in the pub the other night! Who was the last defender in the Premiership to score a hat-trick in a competitive league match? Thanks! I Hemez MARTIN SAYS:
Well, this is a question that crops up annually and I have to say, the answer never changes. Thumbing back through all the hat-tricks scored in the Premier League, there have actually been none scored by a bonafide defender - by that I mean a player playing in that position at the time. But, one player perhaps best-known for his defensive work has scored three in a game before and that man is very much in the news this week following his winner in the Sheffield derby on Sunday, live on Sky Sports. Steve Watson is probably the answer you and your friends are looking for because he netted a hat-trick in Everton's 4-0 win over Leeds United on September 28, 2003. Steve was of course a defender in the main, but I can confirm he was actually playing midfield in that game. The next closest thing I can offer you is a hat-trick by Ian Marshall, for Leicester against Derby County in February 1997. Ian started off as a central defender, but soon became a centre-forward and scored regularly for Oldham, Ipswich, Leicester and Bolton.

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