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Twin peaks

Can you answer Tyler's teaser this week?

Martin Tyler - Martin Tyler Posted 17th March 2011 view comments

Martin Tyler's stats and facts column is here!

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Rafael & Fabio: a mirror image of goalscoring

Rafael & Fabio: a mirror image of goalscoring

If you have spotted something from a game or have been stumped by a pub quiz question, simply email skysportsclub@bskyb.com and he will do his best to help.

Tyler's Starting Stat - Mirror images

I was at Old Trafford on Saturday evening, where Fabio scored his second ever goal for Manchester United, at home to Arsenal. His first was scored away to Wigan.

Bizarrely, it occurred to me that this was an exact mirror image of his twin brother Rafael's first two goals for United. His first goal was away at Arsenal and his second was at home to Wigan! Spooky!

Otherwise, this game was the 13th time that United and Arsenal had been drawn together in the FA Cup - and it proved to be lucky for United as they went 7-6 ahead in terms of progress. Amazingly, Arsenal have now failed to score in their last four FA Cup meetings with United, even though they have won the FA Cup in that time - by beating them on penalties after a 0-0 draw in the 2005 Final.

Wayne Rooney has scored in United's last two FA Cup ties against Arsenal, but still hasn't got a winner's medal; he's been a losing finalist in both 2005 and 2007.

GUNNING, BUT NOT SHOOTING
A lot has been made of Arsenal having no shots in their Champions League game against Barcelona. Has this happened before, either in the Champions League or the Premier League? Thomas W

MARTIN SAYS: Our friends at Opta have been keeping tabs of Champions League games since 2003/04 and in the 981 games played in that period, Arsenal became the first of 1,962 sides not to manage a single shot. Of course, the one shot they did have was chalked off and Robin van Persie was punished with a second yellow card!

Fewest shots (including blocked shots) in a Champions League game since 2003/04:

ZERO
2010/11: Barcelona v Arsenal

ONE
2008/09: Marseille v Atletico Madrid
2009/10: Barcelona v Internazionale
2010/11: Barcelona v Panathinaikos

TWO
2003/04: Stuttgart v Chelsea
2003/04: Monaco v Lokomotiv Moscow
2004/05: PSV Eindhoven v Panathinaikos
2004/05: Barcelona v Celtic
2004/05: Barcelona v Chelsea
2005/06: FC Porto v Rangers
2007/08: FC Porto v Liverpool
2008/09: Steaua Bucharest v Fiorentina
2009/10: Barcelona v Stuttgart
2010/11: Manchester United v Rangers

In the Premier League (over the same period - since 2003/04), only West Brom, away at Man City away in 2004/05, have failed to manage a shot in a match.

SKIPPER STATS
Great column as usual. My question is relating to the England captaincy saga, and how John Terry should be reconsidered as captain of England. How do England's results compare to while John Terry was captain, to what they are after he was stripped of the captaincy? Michael Simpson (Arsenal fan)

MARTIN SAYS: Opta have been on the case and I can tell you that England have been captained by John Terry on 28 occasions since August 2006, winning 18 of those games and losing just four. His record reads P28 W18 D6 L4, which gives him a win percentage of 64%. England's record since he was stripped of the captaincy last February reads P13 W8 D3 L2 and their win percentage is 62% - so there hasn't really been much change.

I can also tell you that of the England captains since David Beckham's appointment in November 2000, John Terry has the best win percentage (unless you include Frank Lampard's winning game as captain against Denmark ), as you can see from the table below. Please note this table records when players started the game as captain - and some of the results may have changed when the captain was substituted.

CaptainGames as captainWinsDrawsLossesWin %First game as captain
David Beckham5935141059%15 November 2000 0-1 vs. Italy
Michael Owen853063%17 April 2002 4-0 vs. Paraguay
Steven Gerrard1582553%31 March 2004 0-1 vs. Sweden
John Terry28186464%16 August 2006 4-0 vs. Greece
Rio Ferdinand741257%26 March 2008 0-1 vs. France
Wayne Rooney10010%14 November 2009 0-1 vs. Brazil
Frank Lampard1100100%9 February 2011 2-1 vs. Denmark

TOP SCORE, NOT TOP FOUR
Dear Martin, With Manchester City just five points ahead of Spurs and having played an extra game there is a real possibility of them not finishing in the top four, so if City don't finish in the top four and Carlos Tevez goes on to become the top goalscorer, would it be the first time in the Premier League that the Golden Boot is won by a player from outside the top four teams? And could you please show at what positions the teams with the top goalscorers have finished in the respective seasons... Thanks, Vikas B (West Ham fan)

MARTIN SAYS: If this happens it would be the first time in 10 seasons that the Premier League's top scorer would be playing for a side that didn't finish inside the top four. The last time it happened was in 2000/01 when Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink was the league's top scorer with 23 goals, but his Chelsea team only managed to finish sixth.

There have only been four Premier League seasons where the top scorer (or at least one of the joint top scorers) was not playing for a club in the top four: Hasselbaink in 2000/01, Sunderland's Kevin Phillips in 1999/00, Blackburn's Alan Shearer in 1995/96 and Tottenham's Teddy Sheringham in the very first Premier League season. Meanwhile, in seven of the 20 Premier League seasons to date, the top scorer has played for the eventual champions.

Premier League top scorers and where their teams finished:

SeasonTop scorerTeamFinishing position
2009/10Didier DrogbaChelsea1st
2008/09Nicolas AnelkaChelsea3rd
2007/08Cristiano RonaldoMan Utd1st
2006/07Didier DrogbaChelsea2nd
2005/06Thierry HenryArsenal4th
2004/05Thierry HenryArsenal2nd
2003/04Thierry HenryArsenal1st
2002/03Ruud van NistelrooyMan Utd1st
2001/02Thierry HenryArsenal1st
2000/01Jimmy Floyd HasselbainkChelsea6th
1999/00Kevin PhillipsSunderland7th
1998/99Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink
Michael Owen
Dwight Yorke
Leeds
Liverpool
Man Utd
4th
7th
1st
1997/98Dion Dublin
Michael Owen
Chris Sutton
Coventry
Liverpool
Blackburn
11th
3rd
6th
1996/97Alan ShearerNewcastle2nd
1995/96Alan ShearerBlackburn7th
1994/95Alan ShearerBlackburn1st
1993/94Andy ColeNewcastle3rd
1992/93Teddy SheringhamTottenham*8th

* One goal for Nottingham Forest

CUP QUERIES
Hi Martin. A match on Football Manager got me thinking - when was the last time the FA Cup final was contested by two teams from outside the top flight? And have a team won the FA Cup and been relegated in the same season? Thanks, Nick (Villa fan)

MARTIN SAYS: The FA Cup Final has never been contested by two teams from outside the top flight. Perhaps the closest we've been was the 2007/08 season when three of the four semi-finalists - Barnsley, Cardiff and West Brom - were from outside the top flight, but Portsmouth beat West Brom in their semi-final and went on to win the cup. With four Premier League semi-finalists this year, that record will not change.

There have however been eight teams to have won the FA Cup, despite playing outside the top flight:

Notts County (1894)
Tottenham Hotspur (1901)
Wolves (1908)
Barnsley (1912)
West Brom (1931)
Sunderland (1973)
Southampton (1976)
West Ham (1980)

To answer your other question, no team has ever won the FA Cup and been relegated in the same season. However, six teams have reached the final and gone down. They are:

Chelsea (1915)*
Man City (1926)
Leicester (1969)
Brighton (1983)
Middlesbrough (1997)
Portsmouth (2010)

* Re-elected to the top division after the First World War without playing in the second tier.

LETTER LOTTERY
Dear Martin. Love your page, anyways I was looking at the Premiership table and I realised the three teams in the drop zone had the same first letter, W. Has there ever been a league season where all relegated teams had the same first letter. Cheers, Ali Mahgoub (Arsenal fan)

MARTIN SAYS: We've had this question a number of times this season, as the bottom seven is currently made of teams starting with 'W' or 'B'. I can tell you there has never been an instance of three clubs being relegated, whose names all begin with the same letter. The closest we've been was in 1999/2000 when Wimbledon, Watford and (Sheffield) Wednesday were relegated or 1976/77 when Sunderland, Stoke and Spurs went down. However, using the full names of Sheffield Wednesday and Tottenham would preclude both of these.

Below I have listed the occasions when two teams whose names start with the same letter have finished in the bottom three. Before the early 1970's it was common that only two teams were relegated, so sometimes all of the teams relegated from the top flight did have the same first letter.

More than one team in the bottom three with the same first letter:

2003/04: Leicester, Leeds
2002/03: West Ham, West Brom
1999/00: Wimbledon, Watford
1999/98: Bolton, Barnsley
1993/94: Sheffield United, Swindon
1984/85: Sunderland, Stoke
1976/77: Sunderland, Stoke
1974/75: Carlisle, Chelsea
1970/71: Burnley, Blackpool
1969/70: Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday
1964/65: Bolton, Birmingham*
1961/62: Cardiff, Chelsea
1959/60: Leeds, Luton
1957/58: Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday
1956/57: Cardiff, Charlton
1932/33: Blackpool, Bolton
1910/11: Bristol City, Bury*
1907/08: Bolton, Birmingham
1904/05: Notts County**, Nottingham Forest**
1902/03: Bolton, Blackburn*
1901/02: Small Heath, Stoke*
1897/98: Blackburn*, Bury*
1896/97: Burnley, Blackburn*
1895/96: West Brom, Wolves
1892/93: Notts County, Newton Heath*

* Finished in the bottom three, but not relegated
** No relegation that season due to league resizing

TOON TITLES
Dear Martin, loved your teaser regarding Man City players who have also won league titles, I wondered if you could answer the same question for my team Newcastle United. I believe players who have played in the Premiership for Newcastle and also won a league title includes; Batty, Shearer, Gallagher (Blackburn), Duff (Chelsea), Campbell (Arsenal) Gillespie, Andy Cole, Butt, Alan Smith (Man Utd) are there any others? Many thanks Gregg, Bristol

MARTIN SAYS: I can find nine players who have won Premier League medals and have also played in the Premier League for Newcastle. Those players are:

Nicky Butt (Man Utd: 1995/96, 1996/97, 1998/99, 1999/00, 2000/01, 2002/03)
Andy Cole (Man Utd: 1995/96, 1996/97, 1998/99, 1999/00, 2000/01)
Sol Campbell (Arsenal, 2001/02, 2003/04)
Damien Duff (Chelsea: 2004/05, 2005/06)
Geremi (Chelsea, 2004/05: 2005/06)
Ronnie Johnsen* (Man Utd: 1996/97, 1998/99, 2000/01)
Louis Saha (Man Utd 2006/07, 2007/08)
Alan Shearer (Blackburn: 1994/95)
Alan Smith (Man Utd: 2006/07)

* Many people forget that Ronnie Johnsen played three Premier League games for Newcastle in 2004/05. You also missed Geremi and Louis Saha from your list.

Three names on your list did not qualify for the following reasons:

- David Batty was part of the Blackburn squad that won the title in 1994/95, but only played five games due to injury. Even though he was offered a medal under "special dispensation", he refused as he felt his contribution was too minimal.

- Kevin Gallacher was also in that Blackburn squad, but a broken leg restricted him to just one game in that title-winning season.

- Keith Gillespie was part of the Manchester United set-up in their title-winning seasons of 1992/93 and 1993/94, but did not play in any league games and did not qualify for a medal.

Tyler's teaser

Fill in your answers to Martin's teaser using the feedback form below - and keep those questions coming in!

Comments (38)

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Alec James (Liverpool fan) says...

Hi Martin, great column as always. After watching soccer saturday this weekend I was surprised the amount of disallowed goals that seemed to happen. I was wondering what is the most amount of disallowed goals that have happened in a weekend of football?

Posted 16:52 19th March 2011

Andy H (Leeds United fan) says...

A Champions League related question for you, in the wake of the quarter final draw, Chelsea have drawn Man Utd. In recent years, we have had Liverpool-Chelsea, Liverpool-Arsenal, Arsenal-Chelsea, Arsenal-Man Utd and Chelsea-Man Utd in that final. My question is how do we compare to the other nations who have been paired with each other? I remember Real-Valencia in the final, and Juventus-Milan in the final. What do you think Martin, is this down to the strength of our league or conspiracy hmm.....

Posted 14:41 19th March 2011

Warlord Chojin (Manchester United fan) says...

Why do people keep saying Beckham? He never won the la liga!

Posted 10:56 19th March 2011

Akram A (Liverpool fan) says...

Great column, Martin ! Each of the top 6 clubs in the League by now have been knocked out of this year cup competitons whether its Champions League for Arsenal, Europe league for Liverpool and Ma City, FA cup for Chelsea and Spurs or Carling Cup for Man U. Some say it's good thing, because it allows them to concentrate on the remaining competitons. Question-statistically, does being knocked out of other competitions before the last 8 helps to win a title or Champion's league qualification ?

Posted 08:14 19th March 2011

Ananda Sapkota (Manchester United fan) says...

Hi Martin. Manchester United will be playing against Chelsea in quarter finals of Champions League. As we know these two teams were winner and runner up in EPL last season. I am wondering how many times before ave winner and runner up played against each other in Champions League knock-out stages? Has it ever happened that two teams playing against each other in knock out stages of Champions League had to play against each other in any other tournament between two legs of Champions League?

Posted 19:15 18th March 2011

Surajo Bawa (Chelsea fan) says...

Hi..what a good column! keep it up.I want to know when does an African player started playing in premier league,and who was that footballer.Thank you.

Posted 17:12 18th March 2011

David Allan (Sunderland fan) says...

hi martin great column,sunderland fan here who works with a lot of geordies.!!.asked them the question about newcastle players who have won premier league winners medals,they mentioned babyaro(chelsea) and michael owen(man utd.)

Posted 16:04 18th March 2011

Thula Molebatsi (Arsenal fan) says...

Hi Martin. Gareth Bale saysTheo Walcott is faster than him. Do you know what their top speed is, and how do they compare to Thierry Henry? In the premier leauge history who is the fastest player and what is his top speed? Thula

Posted 15:24 18th March 2011

Ryan Trodden (Celtic fan) says...

Hi Martin, In the wake of the Champions League draw, a lot of people have predicted Barcelona will win (even before the draw). With the way they dominated Arsenal, who wouldn't make them favourites? On the subject of Barcelona, I was wondering when the last time the opposition finished the game with more possession than them? I can't think, because even when they lose they will have generally outplayed their opponents. I should have probably asked this question after their encounters with Arsenal! Thanks!

Posted 15:11 18th March 2011

Barrie Jackson (Manchester United fan) says...

Tyler's Teaser - Trevor Steven

Posted 14:15 18th March 2011

James Morgan (Aston Villa fan) says...

Surely this is Beckham with Manchester United, Real Madrid and now LA Galaxy?? Sure LA won the 2010 league title.

Posted 12:31 18th March 2011

Yanda Hamilemba (Chelsea fan) says...

am curious about the touch line ban sir alex ferguson has received. how many times has he been banned in his quarter century rein at at old trafford and what has his been winning rate while suspended. cheers am abig fun of your stats

Posted 12:26 18th March 2011

Darren G (Liverpool fan) says...

Hi Martin, great blog. I was wondering since Birmingham will be playing in Europe next year and are pretty close to the drop zone, has any team ever played in a european competition despite being outside their countries top flight, Cheers

Posted 12:16 18th March 2011

Jim Brysh (Manchester United fan) says...

which player has the most own goals

Posted 11:46 18th March 2011

Brendan S (Arsenal fan) says...

I know Arsenal have been in the top flight of football. But who have been there the longest from promotion to relegation. Also who in the premier league haven't been relegated in the last fifty years. I was suprised to see a table from the eighties and some of the names that were missing

Posted 11:43 18th March 2011

Lee Andrews (Sheffield Wednesday fan) says...

Love the stats about teams failing to register a single shot on goal in a match, what is most amusing about the West Brom v Man City match is that WBA managed to win the game despite not having a shot, thanks to a good old Richard Dunne own goal, brilliant stuff.

Posted 10:29 18th March 2011

Liam Moran (Chelsea fan) says...

Hi Martin, love the stats, i was thinking with the possibility of chelsea facing united or tottenham in the champions league quarter final, which teams have played each other most in a season, e.g i know chelsea played liverpool in the permiership then the champions league a few seasons back. Thanks a lot.

Posted 09:51 18th March 2011

Zainesh Gazza (Port Vale fan) says...

i think that Sep Blatter is a nice guy, england are not good enough anyway, i prefer to watch germany. Who do i think should be england captain, obviously it has to be Rob Green cus he is funny. lol !!!!

Posted 09:31 18th March 2011

Mitch King (Arsenal fan) says...

Hi Martin, after hearing a commentator saying how Ryan Giggs is the most 'decorated' player in English football, I wondered What would be the most 'decorated' starting 11 since the Premiership began?

Posted 09:07 18th March 2011

Fraser Mcintyre (Rangers fan) says...

Trevor Steven

Posted 08:57 18th March 2011

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