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No more Fergie time?

Martin Tyler - Martin Tyler Posted 3rd February 2014 view comments

Tyler's Teaser

Every week, Martin will set you a question of his own to get your grey matter working. Click above for this week's Tyler's Teaser - which comes from the Etihad Stadium.

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Martin's Starting Stats

I was at the Etihad Stadium on Monday night to witness the end of a lot of Manchester City runs.

They had scored in the previous 61 games at home, but failed to score there for the first time since November 2010 when they drew 0-0 at home to Birmingham. It was the third time this season they'd failed to score after the 0-0 away to Stoke and 0-1 away to Sunderland which was their previous defeat on November 10.

They had been unbeaten for 20 games which equalled the club record from December 1965-April 1966. In that run they won 11 and drew 9, but in this latest run they won 18 and drew 2. City also fell one short of a club record of 9 successive wins, a feat they achieved from April to September 1912.

In home games this season they had only been 1-0 down to Everton for one minute and Liverpool for seven minutes before Monday night when they were 1-0 down for 58 minutes.

It was the 36th game of Jose Mourinho's return and he named his 36th different team with Nemanja Matic starting only his second game after the FA Cup win over Stoke.

Chelsea are now 10 games undefeated in league and FA Cup with just 2 goals conceded in that time. They have not conceded an away goal in their last five games at Arsenal, Southampton, Hull, Man City (Premier League) and Derby (FA Cup).

Mourinho's record against Manuel Pellegrini now reads P9 W7 D1 L1 - but they will try all over again in the FA Cup on February 15.

The end of Fergie time?

Dear Martin. This season Manchester United have not recovered a single point during the last 10 minutes of matches. This seems remarkable as they were always known for coming back and gaining points in "Fergie time". With this in mind I would like to know how many points they managed to recover in the last 10 minutes in previous Premier League seasons and whether this difference ever helped them win the league? I also think it would be interesting to see who has recovered the most points in the last ten minutes this season! Thanks, Andy

MARTIN SAYS: You're absolutely right to suggest that Manchester United have failed to recover a single Premier League point after the 80th minute this season and to answer your first question we asked Opta to look at each of the last 10 seasons and tell us how many points they earned in the last 10 minutes of games. The results were as follows:

2013/14 (so far): 0 POINTS
2012/13: 11 POINTS
2011/12: 8 POINTS
2010/11: 11 POINTS
2009/10: 5 POINTS
2008/09: 5 POINTS
2007/08: 6 POINTS
2006/07: 4 POINTS
2005/06: 4 POINTS
2004/05: 3 POINTS

As you can see, Manchester United earned 11 extra points after the 80th minute of games last season when they won the league by 11 points! So those goals certainly had an impact on their title win (though they may have beaten Manchester City to top spot on goal difference anyway).

In 2010/11 they also earned an extra 11 points in that period and they won the league by nine points from Chelsea - so those late goals clearly had a significant impact. It was also significant in 2008/09 when they earned five points in that period and won the league by four points and in 2007/08 when they earned six extra points and won the title by two points.

This season, they are one of seven sides who haven't picked up any additional points in the last 10 minutes of games. Interestingly, Manchester City and Liverpool have also not won any points in the last 10 minutes of games - perhaps because on many occasions the games were wrapped up by that stage.

The team who have benefitted the most from late goals this season is Everton. Roberto Martinez's side have earned an extra 11 points after the 80th minute this season - including two at home to Aston Villa last Saturday - and would be down in ninth place without those points.

Points earned after the 80th minute this season:

11 POINTS: Everton
5 POINTS: Chelsea
4 POINTS: Crystal Palace, Fulham, Southampton, Stoke, Tottenham, West Brom
3 POINTS: Cardiff, Sunderland
2 POINTS: Arsenal, Newcastle, Norwich
0 POINTS: Aston Villa, Hull, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Swansea City, West Ham

City's goals spur

Dear Martin. Love reading your column every week and I have a question for you. Manchester City have scored 11 goals against Spurs in two games this season and I was wondering if this is a new record? Hope you can answer my question. Chris Watson

MARTIN SAYS: Manchester City's 6-0 win at the Etihad and 5-1 win at White Hart Lane means that they have become the 13th team in Premier League history to score 11 goals against the same opponent in one season.

And thanks to Opta I can tell you it is not a record because we've seen two sides score TWELVE goals in their two league games against the same opponent in the same season since the start of the Premier League.

The first was Blackburn Rovers, who netted 12 times against Nottingham Forest in the 1995/96 campaign. Rovers won 7-0 at Ewood Park in November 1995 and then went to the City Ground in April 1996 and won 5-1. In fact, Alan Shearer scored four league goals against Forest on his own in that season!

The second team to do it was Tottenham themselves, who managed to score 12 times against Wigan in 2009/10. They famously won 9-1 at White Hart Lane in November and then went away and won 3-0 in February. Jermain Defoe scored six of Tottenham's 12 goals against Wigan that year.

Manchester City have already scored seven against Norwich this season so have a chance to match or break the record when they go to Carrow Road this weekend.

Teams to have scored 11+ goals against one opponent in the same season:

SeasonTeamOpponentTotal goals scored
1995/1996Blackburn Nottingham Forest12
2009/2010Tottenham Wigan12
2007/2008ArsenalDerby 11
2001/2002LiverpoolIpswich 11
2011/2012Manchester CityNorwich 11
2013/2014Manchester CityTottenham 11
1994/1995Manchester UnitedIpswich 11
2002/2003Manchester UnitedNewcastle 11
2007/2008Manchester UnitedNewcastle 11
1998/1999Manchester UnitedNottingham Forest11
1999/2000Manchester UnitedWest Ham 11
1994/1995Nottingham ForestSheffield Wednesday11

First-half goal gluts

Dear Martin. I was at Villa Park for the game against West Brom this week and both teams had scored three goals before half-time. Has this ever happened before in a Premier League game? Alexis (Aston Villa fan)

MARTIN SAYS: Thanks to our friends at Opta I can tell you that this was only the sixth game in Premier League history when both teams had scored three goals by the break. Goals from Chris Brunt, Andreas Weimann, Leandro Bacuna and Fabian Delph at both ends mean each side had netted three before the 44th minute. I've detailed the other five occasions for you below, including three games where the two teams had shared seven goals between themselves before the break. There were no goals after the interval!


You might be surprised to learn that this happened in only the fifth round of games in the very first Premier League season. Manchester City's clash with Oldham was 3-3 by the 38th minute thanks to goals from Niall Quinn (4), Michel Vonk (8) and David White (23) for the hosts and Richard Jobson (11), Mike Milligan (29) and Gunnar Halle (38) for the visitors.


In this game we saw seven goals before the break and none after the interval. Kevin Gallagher (8), Chris Sutton (16) and Martin Dahlin (33) all scored for Blackburn, but it was all in vain as Rod Wallace (3 and 17), Robert Molenaar (6) and David Hopkin (23) ensured Leeds were 4-3 up after 33 minutes - and there were no further goals in the game. I commentated on this game - and it was a birthday treat for me!


Both teams had scored three goals by the 36th minute of this game and Bradford led 4-3 at half-time. A Dean Windass hat-trick (11, 18, 44) and a Peter Beagrie penalty (27) for Bradford were answered by goals from Rory Delap (1), Branko Strupar (6) and Craig Burley (pen, 36). Burley actually scored another penalty in the 52nd minute and the game ended 4-4.


This was another game that was 3-3 at half-time. Southampton's Matt Oakley (7), Peter Crouch (20) and Graeme Le Saux (39) plus goals by David Bentley (3), a Danny Higginbotham own goal (31) and Leon McKenzie (45) for Norwich made it 3-3 at the break. Southampton eventually scored a winner through Henri Camara in the 88th minute.


The last game to see both sides score three times before the break came just over two years ago and saw Manchester United lead Reading 4-3 at the break. Hal Robson-Kanu (8) Adam Le Fondre (19) and Sean Morrison (23) netted for the hosts, but it wasn't enough as goals from Anderson (13), Wayne Rooney (16, 30) and Robin van Persie (34) ensured Sir Alex Ferguson's side led 4-3 - and there were no further goals in the second half.

Spurs in a corner

In all the games I have watched Spurs play this season (and most of last season too) what I have noticed is that they have yet to score direct from a corner kick. So my questions are: 1. Have Spurs scored direct from a corner kick this season? 2. Which team has the worst conversion rate from corners in the Premier League? Paul Simmons

MARTIN SAYS: I assume you don't mean goals "direct from a corner" - because I understand that to mean the corner-taker scores - but rather you're asking about goals scored from corners.

Thanks to my friends at Opta I can tell you that Tottenham have actually scored two goals from corners this season - Vlad Chiriches in the 73rd minute away at Fulham and Etienne Capoue in the 59th minute at home to Man City last week. To clarify, Opta's definition of a goal from a corner is any goal scored in the first phase of the set-piece move. So a corner could be partially cleared, put back into the box while the teams remain in the same attacking shape and scored, and this would count.

In total, they have had 157 corners, so their return of two goals is pretty low (1.3% corners result in goals) and they have the third worst conversion rate in the Premier League.

However, two sides have scored even fewer goals from corners this season. Aston Villa and Stoke have scored just one goal each from corner kicks and so boast an even worse conversion rate. Aston Villa have scored once from their 97 corners, while Stoke have scored just once from 107 attempts - which is surprising given their strength in that department in recent years.

The team with the most corner goals this season is, perhaps unsurprisingly, Manchester City who have scored with eight of their 177 corners this term. However, the team with the best conversion rate is actually Fulham who have had just 119 corners this season, but scored seven goals. That means they score with almost 6% of their corners.

Corner conversion rates in the Premier League (2013/14)

TeamCornersCorner goalsConversion %
Cardiff 11465.3%
Manchester City17784.5%
West Brom11954.2%
Hull 10432.9%
Crystal Palace10732.8%
Swansea 15742.5%
Manchester United14432.1%
West Ham 11021.8%
Newcastle 11121.8%
Norwich 13321.5%
Tottenham 15721.3%
Aston Villa9711.0%

City crash

Hi Martin, It is clearly possible for three London clubs to be relegated from the Premier League this season. I wondered if there has ever been a season when all the relegated clubs have come from London? Or any other single city? Paul Spenceley

MARTIN SAYS: I suppose your question is a fair one with three London clubs - Fulham, West Ham and Crystal Palace - currently occupying three of the bottom four places in the Premier League table.

However, I can tell you that there has only been one occasion in the history of the English top flight when all of the relegated teams came from the same city. That was all the way back in 1914/15 when only two teams went down and the two teams that suffered the drop were London sides Chelsea and Tottenham.

We have never seen three sides from the same city relegated from the top flight in the same season. In the Premier League era we have seen two local rivals relegated in the same campaign and I've listed those for you below, but most of these would not be classed as City rivalries:

Norwich and Ipswich in 1994/95
Sunderland and Middlesbrough in 1996/97
Wimbledon and Watford in 1999/00
Derby and Leicester in 2001/02
Birmingham and West Brom in 2005/06
Charlton and Watford in 2006/07
Newcastle and Middlesbrough in 2008/09
Blackburn and Bolton in 2011/12

It would be a first for the English top flight if three London clubs were relegated this season.

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