There has been talk that too much wrestling goes on in the sport and it is spoiling our great game. However, it is worth bearing in mind that many teams Super League have employed a wrestling coach - including Wigan.
Wigan coach Brian Noble and Castleford coach Terry Matterson have certainly been critical of Huddersfield's tactics after their sides lost to Nathan Brown's men.
Critics of the Giants say that they are holding the man up in the tackle before twisting and turning him onto his back and then all landing on top of him. They say it looks like one big pile-up.
More tackling, less wrestling
Having watched the game between Wigan and Huddersfield last weekend, I would have to disagree with Brian Noble. There was no significant difference between the speed of the play-the-ball between either team. In fact I have picked out several video examples where Wigan did to Huddersfield exactly what Brian Noble was complaining about.
Stat attack
The penalty count ended with Huddersfield conceding 10 and Wigan six. However only one of Huddersfield's penalties was for slowing down the play-the-ball. It is not as if the refs are finding them guilty of this several times during the match.
Critics of the Giants say that they are holding the man up in the tackle before twisting and turning him onto his back and then all landing on top of him. They say it looks like one big pile-up.
Phil Clarke
Quotes of the week
Casual observers may think that the Giants are a dull and boring team because of this so-called tactic, but I would challenge you to show me another side in the Super League who will kick the ball on the second play after a tap penalty (a play from which they scored from at Castleford and went close against Wigan).
Admittedly Huddersfield's defence has improved but so has their luck. Out of the three close games they have had, they have won all three against Bradford, Castleford and Wigan.
Fitness first
Apart from having a new Australian coach, Huddersfield also have a new Australian conditioning coach who has spent time on the quality and control of the tackles they have made.
It is a more focussed approach to stopping the man, stopping the ball and controlling the ruck. If you look at the average number of quick play-the-balls that a team makes in a match and then compare it with the number of quick play-the-balls when they play against Huddersfield, you will see that there is not a great deal of difference. Wigan normally make nine quick plays and had nine against the Giants last Friday.
I just think Huddersfield were able to take their chances and score while Wigan could not, in what was a pretty close game.
Ultimately I would like to see more teams trying to improve their skills of passing, catching and kicking than spend too much time in the wrestling ring.
Phil answers your questions
Hi Phil, I have been watching a few NRL games and have really been impressed how having two referees works. Do you think that is something that the Super League should look at?
Simon, Widnes
PHIL REPLIES: Simon, In principal I agree that two refs would be a step forward. There would be some teething problems but it is almost impossible for one referee to police the ruck area and take the defensive team back 10m. It might be more of a human resources issue though - a non-Sky Super League match already requires seven officials. I know that we are in tough times at the moment, but I don't think the job centre is overcrowded with out of work rugby league officials.
Phil, A lot of time and energy has been spent on Ryan Bailey's tackle in the St Helen's game and its legitimacy; however, no comments have been made regarding Cunningham's tackle where he slammed Burgess's face into the ground. What are your thoughts on the legitimacy of both these types of tackle. Should the RFL make 1 or both illegal?
Iain Buchan.
PHIL REPLIES: I happened to think that under the current rules Bailey's attempted shoulder charge was fair play. I am not sure though how Maurie Fa'asavalu broke his nose and had blood pouring from it, because I thought that Bailey actually hit his body with his shoulder.
In rugby union it is illegal to make this type of challenge and yet I am unsure as to whether this is more dangerous than a 'normal' tackle. People do claim that it is more likely to cause serious injury when the arms are not used and yet it does make for an exciting play. The head slam is illegal and has been for some time;if the officials see this it will be penalised - and rightly so, as it could clearly lead to serious concussion or spinal injury.
Phil, what is your opinion on the rumour that Wigan have been linked with a player exchange deal for Warrington centre Martin Gleeson?
A.Waites, Warrington fan
PHIL REPLIES: It would be a major loss for Warrington as he has been, and still is, one of their best players. It was a great piece of business by the owner of Warrington to buy him three years ago for £200,000. Maybe this is the start of Tony Smith making the changes in personal that he believes are necessary to awaken this club?
From a Wigan perspective he just might be the catalyst to kick start their season after a hot and cold start. One thing is for certain if he does end up in the Cherry and White kit I am sure we will see a full house when we see them play against Saints on Maundy Thursday which is on Sky Sports. It will be his home debut against a team where he really made his name - what a great debut for a boy born in Wigan!
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Comments (14)
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Robert Calvert says...
Hallelujah!!! with reference to the incident in the Bradford v Leeds game where Brent Webb was given offside at a play the ball for being in front of the player playing the ball, the referee was spot on. I have watched the game for sixty years and have seen many such instances go unpunished, the master of this tactic on many occasions especially when playing towards the end of his career for Leeds was the great Ellery Hanley who used to wait as many as thirty yards upfield and wait for the game to catch up with him, and was never penalised, well done Ian Smith
Posted 18:11 14th April 2009
Howard Musgrove says...
Phil, I have just watched two games of SL on Easter Monday, one live and one on TV, however after watching this great game of ours for over forty years I am beginning to get disillusioned by the standards of the officials employed to control the game. The live game was HKR v Huddersfield, a game full of talking points, in my opinion most teams will take the rules to the edge, and test the referee, that said Mr Thaler and his policing of the tackle/ruck leaves a lot to be desired. I witnessed first hand England¿s woeful efforts in Australia in the World Cup, with one of the reasons given for our demise being the different interpretations at the tackle. It would now appear that not only are things different between SL and the NRL regarding this issue, our own referees¿ cannot agree on what is allowed in the tackle. Huddersfield have come into some criticism from some quarters of the game, however Nathan Brown is coaching to his teams strengths, and to what he knows will get him the positive results. However for the good of the game can the RFL clearly define what is allowable at the tackle, it may help the man in the middle, and just as important the spectator. I say this because the second game I watched was Catalan v Wigan, Mr Bentham I thought refereed the tackle/ruck correctly, which led to an open, and importantly an entertaining game of rugby. This game of ours is supposed to be aggressive, fast flowing entertainment, and not a version of the World Wrestling Federation with a rugby ball. I could also go onto talk about referee¿s assistants¿, and forward passes; however, I will leave these points to others.
Posted 16:35 14th April 2009
Nigel Moss says...
A couple of questions regarding the Bradford versus Leeds game. We know that the video ref cannot adjudicate on forward passes but the knock on he was asked to judge when Leeds scored was effectively asking him to do the same thing as it was not a case of a player losing possession on the floor or onto another player. How can the rules allow one but not the other? This also stifled one of the best pieces of creative play in the game. Other areas to look at: Brent Webb was obviously offside but joined in play 50 yards later and was penalised as Stevo correctly said after every kick downfield lots of players are offside at the next play the ball and it is going to take a very sharp ref to make sure non of them join in again. Finally Terry Newton blatantly obstructed a Leeds player before the Bradford try but this was not penalised, also on a kick players can be offside in front of the kicker but only have to give the receiver ten metres, I suggest that they either have to be put onside by being overtaken by the kicker or someone behind him or have to be behind the kicker in the first place. This would allow wingers and full backs more space to make those thrilling counter attacking runs we love. Imagine Webb and Halley with space last night how much more exciting would the game have been? I look forward to your thoughts.
Posted 10:01 11th April 2009
Neil Finch says...
I was at the Wigan v Huddersfield game and I didn't have a problem with tackling technique, but did have a problem with the lying on AFTER the tackle had been completed. I know all teams, including Wigan, do try to slow down the opposition's play the ball but it became obvious as this game progressed that the lying on by Huddersfield was by far the worst that I, and most people I have spoken to, could remember. As a spectator for over 50 years I want to see fast flowing rugby, not players, who in my opinion, are lying on after the tackle, to the extreme and beyond. We, the paying public, need, expect and deserve better than that. If it continues the momentum Rugby League has experienced in terms of increased attendances built up because of the exciting product on offer will surely reverse. (This is not a gripe or sour grapes because Wigan lost - I am used to that now with the losses down to the standard of rugby by Wigan. I am, however, showing concern that our game could be strangled with these tactics. Just because they are are used in Australia doesn't mean they should be exportd over here.)
Posted 14:21 9th April 2009
Peter Ostrowski says...
the referee is there to offciate and pick up on any illegal tactics employed by any team. dont blame the giants. blame the ref and linesmen for not spotting offences. i somtimes think there is a bit of jealousy creeping in as the giants are doing so well this season.
Posted 12:53 9th April 2009
Ian Prest says...
Re wrestling and the Giants: Noble is a whinger who can't take defeat gracefully...but he better get used to it. What has he done at Wigan besides blow a load of cash and break salary cap rules...what a waste of money Fielding was..a legend in his own lunchtime. We are now seeing the real Noble and it is not edifying.
Posted 01:32 9th April 2009
Joseph Hill says...
Spot on Russell Osborne. Whether it is rugby league or the funny round ball Leeds have never been liked, why I do not know. We play fair but hard, we pioneer but are often on the receiving end of harsh decisions. Saints are not gods. On another note, could Mat Diskin please keep his big mouth shut when addressing the match official and stop conceding us valuable territory, why does Danny Maguire insist on kicking the ball on the second or third tackle inside the opposition twenty when very little is on and is Scott donald actually going to wake up this season? Oh and well done Kieth Senior, the only working part of our three-quarter line. Absolute class.
Posted 20:25 7th April 2009
Paul Vause says...
I have to disagree with you Phil on Huddersfield, although i didnt see their game against wigan the tactics huddersfield used against Castleford were not only "spoiling" but dangerous, several high shots went in against castlefords players yet the official seemed to let this happen. Matterson was spot on to call it after the game, it wasnt sour grapes on his part. Huddersfield were slow in the ruck yet very fast of the line, the reason why they were so fast is because they were stealing metres and were offside constantly.
Posted 12:41 7th April 2009
David Cornwell says...
Phil, what great analysis of Huddersfield's tackling technique. I honestly can't see why the giants have been labelled as slowing the 'play the ball' because they aren't doing anything wrong and certainly employing the same techniques in the tackle as many other SL teams are including Wigan. I don't honestly know where Brian Noble and his coaching staff are coming from to complain about it. It looks like he would like to put the blame for Wigan's poor performance on the opposition, a tactic he is good at. I wish coaches would really just concentrate on their own teams and players to find what is going wrong instead of wasting their time pointing the finger. It's probably just mind games to shield the players.
Posted 16:55 6th April 2009
Giants Fan says...
I cant actually believe that huddersfield are being accused of these tackles. Nathan brown is one of the most proffesional coaches in the game who to me appears to want to try and keep the Giants diciplined by stopping them conceading penalties in order to win the game. I do have to say i have watched the game for maybe 10 or 12 years and since i have started watching the game i have seen the many super league teams constantly applying the 'Grapple tackle' and constantly being extremley premature off the defensive line. i have noticed this against the giants because i belive this is the reason Huddersfield are finding it hard to make yards. The most ridiculous thing about the premature running is that both linesmen are watching the defensive line instead of one watching for forward passes. I believe that this proves how 'big' coaches can sometimes get outstandingly jealous when they are not winning games!! well done Huddersfield
Posted 18:22 5th April 2009
Paul Melling says...
Phil,i was at the recent game between Wigan and Huddersfield and my thoughts regarding the issues discussed since are as follows. Yes, Huddersfield are a "spoiling" team but there is no law against that. Yes, there is too much "wrestling" going on in RL at the moment, much to the detriment of the game...and Wigan are as guilty as any team..it has become part and parcel of the modern game. No, Mr Noble, you are wrong to complain. If Wigan had played even a little bit better we would have won the game. Wigan´s play has become sterile under Noble´s management..dare i say it..too old fashioned! It is wrong of Noble and his assistant Vievers to constantly whinge about the opposition and referees after every defeat..it is time they started looking at themselves instead of blaming others for Wigan´s failings. Good luck to Huddersfield..you are practically a Wigan old boys club and it is nice to see those Wiganers playing well. Maybe if Wigan had kept hold of some of these (plus many more ) home grown players instead of signing anyone who has an Australian accent then we would have a stronger and more committed squad. In short..NOBLE..stop moaning and get coaching.
Posted 12:52 5th April 2009
Russell Osborne says...
Can we just put the Ryan Bailey issue to bed now, Leeds haters? The tackle was legal, RL is a rough, tough game and if you cant stand the heat, take up tiddleywinks or join a knitting circle, besides, Fass is hardly a sunday school teacher when it comes to the `physical` side of RL, is he? Everyone meets their match eventually, Fass met his and because he is a saints player nobody likes it!
Posted 10:25 5th April 2009
Carl Linley says...
i haven't seen huddersfeild play this year but brian noble hasn't got a leg to stand on accusing huddersfeild of slowing the ruck down as he is famous for this antic. to be honest i think thats how they did so well against the rhinos.
Posted 12:39 3rd April 2009
Gary Baker says...
Phil, I much appreciated your answer re. the 'wrestling' in the tackle that has come into the game this season. I am surprised you did not mention that it is no coincidence that this has become prevalent because of our exposure to it during the World Cup and the Aussie's use of it both at international and domestic level. The problem with supporters in this country is that, as was proven in your column last week, supporters have a big influence of officials giving penalties. As soon as supporters do not expect defenders to clear the ruck area after 2 seconds then I think the game will be the better for it.
Posted 12:11 3rd April 2009
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