Are Reds' hopes over?

Are Liverpool out of the Premier League race? Join Sky Sports debate

Last updated: 3rd January 2008  

Are Reds' hopes over?

Benitez: Are his tactics right?

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Liverpool's title challenge was dealt another blow after being held to a 1-1 draw by struggling Wigan at Anfield.

The setback leaves Rafa Benitez's men 12 points behind leaders Arsenal.

SkyBet are now quoting odds of 25-1 for the Premier League crown to go to Anfield in May with many pundits writing off their title chances.

Is this too much of a gap for the Reds to make up?

Can Liverpool get wins at Old Trafford, Emirates and Stamford Bridge to haul themselves back into the title shake-up?

What about Benitez's tactics against struggling Wigan? Was he right to play with just one striker?

Should the Spaniard look to make changes in the January transfer window?

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Comments (130)

Chris Md (Liverpool fan) says...

Cannot believe what is happening with my beloved. My son is mocking me badly, as he is an Arsenal supporter. The tales of glory are but distant glint in my memory now, but thank god for LFC TV I can actually show him what a power house the mighty reds once were. This machine was based on development of local lads and UK based up-coming stars. This has recently changed in the departure of Steve Heighway, giving Rafa total control of the club at all levels. Where are the youngsters now? On loan elsewhere. There was once a time when commentators iterated "yeah, but you can never write off Liverpool". There is no weight at all behind this statement as that started to happen when we introduced foreign managers who had no idea of what Liverpool (city) and the club is all about. But I have faith and we will be back. The Euro ban hit us hard as well. I recognise that foreign managers is all that we can hope for now, but lets get the best of the bunch. Welcome Mourinho. Born winner

Posted 12:48 7th January 2008

Chris Walsh (Liverpool fan) says...

There certainly are some deluded Liverpool fans on here and I say that being a lifelong Liverpool fan myself.We need to separate winning the Champions league in 2005 from winning the league.Winning a cup is a hell of a lot easier than winning th e league.Also don`t make me laugh saying that we beat the best in Europe,the champions league is so watered down now its value has diminished greatly from when we won it in the 70`s and 80`s.Don`t get me wrong winning the champions is a great achievement but it should not be confused with or compared to winning the domestic league.I think they should restructure the champions league and let ONLY the champions of each league through,if that happened and we won it then,that would be something to really celebrate and show off about. Regarding Rafa`s tactics and team selection,the results speak for themselfs.He is getting better but sometimes he is so far out in his tactics and team selection its embarrassing. Personally I think we almost have a championship winning side in terms of the players at the club already,I would maybe bring in two or three players,ie- A speedy winger,replacement for Riise and possibly a back-up striker.The main problem seems to be utilising the players we have and getting the best out of them.BENITEZ DOESNT SEEM TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS.Bring in Mourinho and he would make the best of the players we have in terms of selection,tactics and belief, you bet.

Posted 10:15 7th January 2008

Vernon Govender (Liverpool fan) says...

Liverpool fan for life, Liverpool will never win the league this season or probably the next.They do not play consistent football.Rafa needs to play his best 11 week in week out barring injuries. He needs to understand he is totally responsible. Against "weaker prem teams" he needs to play his best team get the goals then make the substitutions.It is getting frustrating being a lfc supporter seeing your team dominating but cannot finish teams off.Get rid of Voronin, Kuyt [hard worker but hey he is getting paid for scoring goals], Pennant[past his sell by date],Aurellio[ worst brazilian]

Posted 05:13 7th January 2008

Dan Mcmahon (Arsenal fan) says...

No chance in the league. I haven't rated liverpool highly for the last 10 years or more. Even for a supposedly "top four" team their recent achievements are far below chelseas, man u's or arsenal. Rafa has also wasted ALOT of money on players (past and present) who definitely would'nt get a game in the top 3 clubs (top four minus liverpool) players like Pennant, Aurellio, Gonzales, Voronin, Benayoun, Morientes, Kromkamp, Josemi, Nunes, Pellegrino, Zenden, Paletta, Leto and (arguably) Crouch + Kuyt, Amoung many many more. Not to mention his over-reliance on Squad rotation and zone marking. With the likes of Torres, Babel, Gerrard, Agger (and a new manager!!) Liverpool could mount a challenge in a few years though...

Posted 17:18 6th January 2008

Richie Rich (Liverpool fan) says...

Problem is Liverpool only come to life when we have our backs to the wall, you see this every season in cups comps, everytime were about to go out we somehow turn it around, this years CL has already shown this, when we needed to win all our last 3 games and we did, I dont need to mention being 3-0 down against Milan either. The problem is you can't do that in the league, its hard to get up for a game against Wigan its not like a CL game, we just don't play to are full level against weaker teams, MAN U and Aresnal even when they don't play well pull through and probably nick a goal and win, this is the differemce in wining the league and not. Liverpool are in serious danger of finishing 5th or worse because ManCity and Villa are doing really well and Everton have been on fire since they lost to us, If that happens Rafa will defently get fired, unless of course he wins the CL. Which brings me back to Liverpool being only good in Cups, I don't think Rafa will ever get it quite right in the league. Also don't forget Arensal have been building the last two seasons they were way off the pace as well just about getting 4th of spurs one season, so now all that work is comming to fruit, so you need to give Rafa some time, if he goes alot of the spanish players will to, which you know are most of our best players. You can atleast say were not 30 ponits behind like last couple of seasons, so some improvement has happened, just still abit off from the top 3, I'd give raf atleast one more season to get to the league title. Liverpool have always given their managers time, If you don't you end up like Newcastle and Spurs who never get anywhere because their always rebulinding every 2-3 years, which means you stay in the same place.

Posted 16:56 6th January 2008

Mark Skaife (Liverpool fan) says...

We seem to have a Manager who doesn't know what to do with a team. If he just stood back and looked at his cock-ups then maybe he wouldn't learn from those mistakes and he would scrap the rotating he does. Peter Crouch was ridiculed when he came to Liverpool and struggled but he has proven his worth, however he is relied on heavily when he does get to play, up front alone with minimal support. Gerrard is our kingpin and to much is constantly expected of him and when he plays with passion Benitez takes him off. Kewell is he really worth a red shirt of Liverpool? I remember Istanbul when Kewell lasted minutes and limped off. Then when we win, he would have beaten Ben Johnson the drug taking 100 metre sprinter by 50 metres to the tape. Ship him out whilst we can still get a couple of grand for him. We need a spirit back at Liverpool Football Club and I don't think Hicks and Gillet are the right choice. Since they came along things have gone from bad to worse. Though Benitez has never improved anyway. lol I hope and I pray that we won't go 20 odd years without a title as Utd did, as we'd never live it down. I'm just glad I don't pay to watch them and endure the heartache all the loyal supporters do. The first thing Hicks & Gillet will do, when given the opportunity, is sell to the highest bidder for money and not for Liverpool FC

Posted 16:06 6th January 2008

N M (Liverpool fan) says...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SACK BENITEZ!!!! Isnt 4 years long enough to imprint a 'brand' and style of football? The drab lacklusture fooball that we are now used to seeing is simply not good enough! I want to see dominant pressing attacking football. As a club with a tradition for winning I want to see Liverpool WIN!!! No disrespect but Steve Brucie has got more idea on tactics than Benitez having taken points at Anfield in two visits! Benitez has spent 10mil on hapless hopeless and totally sh*te Kuyt. GRRRR!!!! He annoys me so much!!! I think he ranks alongside the worst ever signings like Biscan, Dundee, Meijer and Cheyrou. Oh and what about Pennant, Sissoko, Aurelio, Nunez, Crouch, Pellegrini, Gonzalez, Paletta, Voronin to mention a few!!! Benitez does not have an eye for talent! None of these players would get into Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea teams. I doubt they'd even get into lower league teams like Bolton Wigan Reading! The team needs new ideas, a fresh approach from someone with an idea on good signings both long and short term. Someone who can make LFC realistically challenge for the title with the fast paced attacking brand of football that is synonymous with LFC! BENITEZ OUT!

Posted 14:10 6th January 2008

Abdul Aziz (Liverpool fan) says...

Rafa has lost the faith of LFC fans. Rafa please leave now so as to let Mourinho to be able to take it from here. Thanks for CL Rafa but your latest comments on the big gap with Man U proves you are not capable to bring us the Premiership title. One man can do it. He's MOURINHO!

Posted 14:02 6th January 2008

Andrew Harper (Liverpool fan) says...

Yes, Liverpool are out of the title race and there is only one door at which the blame can lie: Rafa Benitez's. I'm sick of the apologists for this guy in certain sections of the media such as a certain 'daily' tabloid and some of the fans. He's now run out of excuses in my opinion. He was backed heavily last summer to buy Torres (£21m), Babel (£13m) and Benayoun (£4m) as well as Lucas, Voronin and Leto who he has hardly used. Forget Istanbul look at the facts: in four seasons no title challenge going into January. P21 W4 against the rest of the big 4 in the Prem - appalling. Never beaten Manchester United in the league. Presided over two cup exits in a week to Arsenal this time last year - one of them a 6-3 defeat AT HOME. Wake up guys - he's a fallacy and not the supercoach the media would have you believe. And this comes from a lifelong Liverpool fan. It hurts, but he's not good enough.

Posted 13:48 6th January 2008

Mark Meilak (Liverpool fan) says...

I think our Premiership title chances are all but gone.However,It's not all down to Rafa.He is constantly improving the squad with sensible acquisitions and wastes no time in getting rid of the non performers.What's happening is that the top 3 are improving faster or more!Obviously there is a limiting factor in improving the squad -money!Rafa has done well with the budget he had at hand but when you look at the other teams they have more money and are improving more than Liverpool.I sincerely think that the back bone of the team is there and he has at least 2 players for every position.He just needs to continuing improving the squad by buying better players than he has and getting rid of the ones he replaced.What I think we need is another top striker to accompany Torres.Then I would keep Kuyt and crouch as backup.The central midfield is loaded with battling midielders,however we don't have a midfielder (in the likes of Ronaldinho) who can forge ahead and dribble 2 defenders.ON the wings I would keep Pennant and Babel but we still need a Joaquin,Vicente,David Villa or Mancini on each side.The defense is the only department of the team which I can say is settled and the facts speak for themslves since we are conceding few goals.

Posted 13:01 6th January 2008

Roy O (Liverpool fan) says...

If you look at the past few seasons we've pretty much been in the same situation after every New Year's eve.....trailing Man U, Arsenal or Chelsea by over 10 points and eventually finishing 20 points behind at the end of the season. This season is no exception. I think that even if we were leading the table by 5 points I would not be so sure we could take the title. As much as I love Rafa, I think that after the Wigan game (playing with one striker against a bottom of the table club at home) he has to go. He has no excuses this season he's been with the club 3 years, he's had time and money to build and winning the Champions league and FA cup on penalties is mostly luck than quality games...although I wouldnt mind it happening every season. Bring on Mourinho who is hungry for revenge at Abramovich and knows what it means to win the title. Mourinho has proven he doesnt need the big bucks for success (Look at Porto) and he's proven he knows how to build teams from scratch around 1-2 stars (Chelsea).

Posted 09:29 6th January 2008

Espen Phua (Newcastle United fan) says...

No offence to LFC fans, but seems to me this season, Liverpool have relied heavily on Gerard's setpieces to win. Without those late free-kicks from Gerard, I can't really see how the team are playing to win a game. Liverpool's gameplay don't convince me they're ready to challenge the title. =P

Posted 07:57 6th January 2008

J Taylor (Liverpool fan) says...

sadly, i have to admit that we are out of the title race this year. we seem to lack that killer instinct which the other big teams have. in the window, i would be happy with masch, a centre back and possibly a winger if funds allow, and then we can sort out our strikers come the summer. i still strongly believe that we will win the league under rafa provided he is given time and money to instil his footballing philosophy, as wenger was at arsenal. to my fellow fans: chill out. we were still very much in the title race until the city and wigan results, although i believe the birmingham, spurs and reading games will prove to be the key occasions that we came unstuck. have faith in rafa and he will deliver. finally, if you are fortunate to attend a match at anfield, get behind the team and SING. even if you do not attend regularly, you should still make an effort to join in with the songs. the reclaim the kop website can be very useful in getting acquainted with the lyrics. and if you are a regular, but do not sing at matches, then shame on you. there is no excuse. AND STAY UNTIL THE FINAL WHISTLE AND REFRAIN FROM BOOING THE TEAM.

Posted 02:37 6th January 2008

T14 Henry (Arsenal fan) says...

It's plain and simple, Liverpool needs to get players who make themselves football stars instead of having the Liverpool fans create "their" stars. With the exception of Torres I look at the Liverpool squad in the same manner as I have done for the past 6 seasons in the Premiership, they're just above average but not brilliant like the Man Yoos and Chelseas. I even think that Gerrards best years were 2 seasons ago and I feel that he is performing at 92% of his proven excellence. Rafa should now focuss on getting the maximum points available because I do not see Man U and Arsenal dropping too many points. I certainly do not envy the Liverpool midfieldbecase it has a war horse as a play maker (Gerrad) and not a flamboyant combinaton like the Giggs and Ronaldo driven offence of Man Utd's midfield. Nevertheless I think the best the Reds can do is finish 3rd and if it wasn't for the ridiculous acquisition of "big name" players at 'big name pricess" Chelsea, Liverpool would be seen by many as a horrendous uderachiever. Maybe next season Rafa, but if it is to be so you willhave to change the perspective of attack and the flair of the team or Liverpool will become another Newcatle United where the money is there, but nothing seems to work.

Posted 23:12 5th January 2008

J Smith (Liverpool fan) says...

I have supported Liverpool for countless years, All this about Benitez is a fair point. Admittedly Houllier i feel took us as far as he could at the time but Benitez is supposed to be a magical tactician? lets be honest since he's been there we're no further foward in the top 4 than we were, I can't honestly say we have progressed, look at is this year, I thought that this was our year, maybe not to win it but to be there right upto the end, but i cant see it now. We are now relying on the rest dropping points, us consistantly winning week in and week out and not getting any injuries to any of our top players. We have no strength and depth, look at our main rivals and they can cope without the drogbas, rooneys and van persies. all we've heard recently is how we outplayed other teams had 70% of the posession but i'd rather have 10% and win than that, especially if we have such a great team I did at one time understand Benitezs views on roatation, but lets be completley honest it hasnt worked, if it had we would be within points at the top, not struggling through the champions league and winning games week in and week out because we would have fresher players, well whats the point with that now if we are suddenly looking over our shoulder at man city, everton etc. I think benitez has had his time, the fa cup win was down to gerrards right boot not tactical, even the champions league i think was luck because his main point in the team talk was 'listen to those fans singing' well any player worth pulling on our beloved shirt should remember that so i cant honestly say that was completley him being a genius either. O'neill is the man to take us to the top, look at what he's done at Villa, with not as much money or quality, he could get the best out of each player and play positive football not one up front at a home game. Plus he shows passion, and lets be honest that what Liverpool has always been about until recently

Posted 19:19 5th January 2008

Mike Lamb (Liverpool fan) says...

The main problem is a certain aussie left winger who Rafa keeps on turning to in vain desperation that he is going to return to the form from his Leeds heyday. Meanwhile sat on the bench is 11 million quids worth of explosive young dutch talent who, if we aren't carful is going to become nothing more than the next Bionic Carrot (AKA David Fairclough) come on Rafa sort it out!! YNWA

Posted 18:29 5th January 2008

Mark Skaife (Liverpool fan) says...

I am sick of hearing how good Rafa is, I remember Houllier being brilliant. Neither Rafa or Houllier had a clue about the heritage of LFC. Rafa is stubborn and should admit to his mistakes, he uses statement, we played well, we created chances. Big Deal! We need to score goals. Anfield was a fortress and teams feared play there but now anyone is confident at scoring. I said it about Houllier, I've said it about Benitez rotation doesn't work, consistency breeds a winning team. Prediction: Nil Trophy for Liverpool this season and defo no Premiership under Benitez. Benitez wants to realise he's chasing pink elephants if he thinks he will win us a title. NO CHANCE!

Posted 16:18 5th January 2008

Joe Belever (Weston-S-Mare fan) says...

3-0 down in arguably the most difficult club competition final in the whole world, against arguably the best club in the whole world - 45 minutes plus extra time and penalties to achieve the impossible.... impossible, impossible, right? Well, if Rafa, Steven Gerrard and the magnificent Reds can pull that out of the hat, then 25-1 sounds like good odds to me. I wonder what kinda odds the bookies would have had on Liverpool at half-time on that glorious night in Istanbul? Nobody thinks that Liverpool can win the Premiership, i wonder what Liverpool think?

Posted 16:01 5th January 2008

John Clarke says...

I find it funny that Liverpool supporters now hope that the African Nations Cup will allow them to finish 3rd ahead of Chelsea. Liverpool used to be a club with ambition, but not anymore. 2nd, 3rd and fourth are failure, but i suppose they have become used to that in the Premier League.

Posted 10:18 5th January 2008

Petero Iscarioti (Liverpool fan) says...

Liverpool are not out of the title race.they have made their race much harder for themselves.they can beat arsenal,Man U and Chelsea on the travel but they cannot afford to drop any points from now henceforth.they can also rely on the 3 teams dropping points when they play against each other(assume the 3 games all turn out to be draws between Man U,Arsenal and Chelsea). Liverpool would be back in the race...............................

Posted 10:15 5th January 2008

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