Blunders & blinders

Own goals, not goals and more from Hull

Last updated: 6th November 2008   Subscribe to RSS Feed

Blunders & blinders

Carragher: wrong end again

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Martin Tyler's stats and facts column is back to offer you statistical gems to make your day and impress your mates.

Sky Sports' voice of football and his back-up team of experts are here to answer your questions and queries on all things statistical and historical from the beautiful game.

It could be on a side in the Premier League or Football League, international scene or European competitions - or it could be about an individual player or manager.

If you have spotted something from a game or have been stumped by a pub quiz question, simply email here and Martin will do his best to answer.

Or use the feedback form at the bottom of the page....

Tyler's starting stat
Wanderers' return

I was at The Reebok on Sunday to see one of the many North West derbies the Premier League throws up and Bolton claim bragging rights for the first time in almost a year. Given that they play Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Everton, Blackburn and Wigan, you might be surprised to find that that was their first win against any of their Lancashire rivals since December 2007, when they recorded a 4-1 win over Wigan at The Reebok. City's record isn't much better though; they have now only won one of their last 11 North West derbies, although that was the 2-1 at Old Trafford last season! Individually, Jussi Jaaskelainen, 11 years at the club, marked his 400th Bolton appearance and 261st in the Premier League with a very good performance and a clean sheet, while Ricardo Gardner scored his first Premier League goal in 155 games! He did manage one in the UEFA Cup against none other than Bayern Munich last season, but in the league you have to go all the way back to December 6, 2002, when he netted in the 4-3 win over Newcastle United - who Bolton left bottom of the league, albeit briefly, by beating City!

WOOD YOU BELIEVE IT?
Hi Martin, after a cracking round of matches this weekend it seemed as though the woodwork was hit more than usual. I can recall the woodwork being hit three times at both White Hart Lane and Fratton Park. It led me to wonder if the woodwork was hit more times this weekend than in any other round of Premier League fixtures? Maybe your friends at Opta could shed some more light on this? James Connaughton, Durham
MARTIN SAYS: Well James, you are right! Quite simply, the woodwork up and down Premier League grounds has suffered this weekend more than any other, this season at least. In all 10 Premier League games from Saturday to Monday, the post and crossbar were hit no fewer than 12 times, according to the boffins at Opta: three alone in the Portsmouth-Wigan game you mention, three in the Tottenham-Liverpool game and three apiece as Everton beat Fulham in front of the Sky Sports cameras. Deco at Chelsea also suffered on Saturday but you can add to that list Martin Laursen and Nicky Butt in the Newcastle-Aston Villa game on Monday night. The previous best - or worst - this season was 10, which came in the eighth round of fixtures. As for individuals hitting the frame of the goal, John Carew, Ricardo Fuller and Zoltan Gera - who struck the post on Saturday - have all been denied by post or bar three times so far this term, although Kieran Richardson of course managed that with one free-kick against Fulham - but that obviously only counts as one!

WRONG END... AGAIN
Hi Martin, I've never posed a question to you before, but being a much happier Spurs fan this week I am beginning to wonder if Jamie Carragher is a closet Spurs fan too. I remember in 1998-99 he managed an own goal in both league fixtures, in addition to his much appreciated effort yesterday. Not only that, I seem to recall he managed two own goals in one game against Manchester United at Anfield in a 3-2 defeat a few seasons back. Surely this guy has some sort of unwanted record when it comes to the dreaded own goals record, either against (or should I say for!) one club, or even in total? James Chesney, Chelmsford
MARTIN SAYS: You are right in remembering Jamie Carragher's own goals against Spurs and indeed his two in the same against Manchester United back in September 1999. Those five own goals are actually the sum total of times Jamie has put through his own goal in the Premier League, but he is not the worst offender, I can tell you. That dubious honour is shared between two stalwarts of our game: Frank Sinclair and Richard Dunne, who I saw put through his own goal on Sunday of course! That was Richard's second OG in four games and sees him move level with Frank. Far be it from me to name and shame but our good friends at Opta have provided a list of the top own goal scorers; all I will say is that they are all defenders whose willingness to keep the ball at bay is bound to backfire once in a while.

PlayerOwn goals scored
Richard Dunne6
Frank Sinclair6
Jamie Carragher5
Michael Duberry5
Rio Ferdinand5
Richard Rufus5
GEO WHIZZ!
Hi Martin, another super showing from Phil Brown's boys on Saturday and another goal from the boy from Brazil. Geovanni and Daniel Cousin have scored in away games at Old Trafford and The Emirates now and got me thinking, when was the last time someone scored, for the same club, at Arsenal and Man United in the same season? It can't have happened that often. Simon Coombes MARTIN SAYS: I have to admit Simon, Hull are becoming a regular feature in this column - and why not after their fantastic start to the season? In among their feats so far, Geovanni's and Cousin's goals at Old Trafford and The Emirates (and you can throw in White Hart Lane) do stand out, because not many players score against United or the Gunners in their own backyards full-stop, never mind in the same season. But it has been done before and you don't have to dig too deep into the Premier League annuls to find when: back in the 2004-05 campaign, Robert Earnshaw did it, although of course his goal at Arsenal came at Highbury and not The Emirates. Earnshaw came off the bench to bag West Brom's equaliser in a 1-1 draw at Highbury in November 2004 and then scored from the spot at Old Trafford in another 1-1 draw the following May. Unlike Geovanni he didn't find the net at White Hart Lane, but if it is omens you are looking for Simon, I can tell you that West Brom stayed up that season!

TREBLE TROUBLE
Dear Martin. If you'd told me before the match that Hull City would score three goals at Old Trafford, I'd have said you were a liar. But even after the game, I can't believe we scored three at Old Trafford and still lost the game. When was the last time that happened? Cheers, Will
MARTIN SAYS: Well Will, it's not often that Manchester United concede three goals in ANY Premier League game - and I'm certainly not a liar! Indeed the last time it happened was more than two and a half years ago on April 29, 2006 when Chelsea put three past them at Stamford Bridge on their way to winning the league title. William Gallas, Joe Cole and Ricardo Carvalho were the goalscorers on that day. The last time United shipped three on home soil was against the same opposition on May 10 2005 as Tiago, Eidur Gudjohnsen and Joe Cole found the net in a 3-1 victory at Old Trafford. United famously gave Chelsea a guard of honour on that evening - and their defenders were clearly in an unusually generous mood as well. The last team to score three goals against Manchester United and still end up on the losing side was Everton back on February 7, 2004. David Unsworth, Kevin Kilbane and a John O'Shea own goal saw the Toffees come from 3-0 down to level it at 3-3 - but Ruud van Nistelrooy broke their hearts with a last-minute winner for United. As for the last Premier League team to score three at Old Trafford and still come away with nothing, that was Newcastle United six years ago on November 23 2002. Olivier Bernard, Alan Shearer and Craig Bellamy all scored, but a Van Nistelrooy hat-trick plus goals from Paul Scholes and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer gave United a 5-3 win.

BELATED BORO
Dear Martin. I noticed your stat recently about Liverpool picking up so many points late in games. Well I'm a Middlesbrough fan and I reckon the opposite is true because we've let in far too many late goals. I reckon if our games finished after 80 minutes we'd be much higher up in the table, but my mate says we'd be worse off because we scored late goals ourselves against Wigan and West Ham. Can you tell us who is right - there's money riding on it! Cheers. Billy Birtill, Teesside
MARTIN SAYS: First of all, I think it's safe to say you should never leave a Middlesbrough game early, Billy! In their 11 league games so far this season there have been 27 goals - and 12 of them have come in the last 10 minutes. In fact, only two of their games have seen no goals scored after the 80th minute - the 1-0 defeat to West Brom and the 5-0 loss to Chelsea. To settle your bet, if Middlesbrough's matches finished after 80 minutes their record would be P 11 W 4 D 4 L 3 F 6 A 9 PTS 16. Their actual record is P 11 W 4 D 2 L 5 F 11 A 16 PTS 14 As you can see, they would be two points better off if their matches finished after 80 minutes, so you can tell your friend you've won your bet! To make things clearer, here is a table:

VersusScore after 80minsPoints after 80minsActual scoreActual Points
TottenhamWinning 1-03Won 2-13 (=)
LiverpoolWinning 1-03Lost 2-10 (-3)
StokeDrawing 1-11Won 2-13 (+2)
PortsmouthDrawing 1-11Lost 2-10 (-1)
SunderlandDrawing 0-01Lost 2-00 (-1)
West BromLosing 1-00Lost 1-00 (=)
WiganDrawing 0-01Won 1-03 (+2)
ChelseaLosing 5-00Lost 5-00 (=)
BlackburnWinning 1-03Drew 1-11 (-2)
Man CityWinning 1-03Won 2-03 (=)
West HamLosing 1-00Drew 1-11 (+1)

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Comments (5)

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Vishal Shah (Tottenham Hotspur fan) says...

Hi Martin, I'm intrigued at the amount of competition in the Premier League this year of all teams from 5th downwards. Being a Spurs fan, I've noticed that bottom club Spurs have taken 5 points from the Big Four. Is this the most points that a single team has taken from the Big Four this season and also, which teams took the most points off the Big Four in the last few seasons.

Posted 01:40 6th November 2008

David Daughters (Tottenham Hotspur fan) says...

Hello Martin, excellent column! Watching the Champions League game between Juventus and Real Madrid the other week, I noticed that the attendance was just a pitiful 25,000 between two footballing giants of our time.I was wondering what the lowest, and highest, attendances have been in a Champions League game over the last 16 years (excluding the final). Hope you can help!

Posted 23:45 5th November 2008

Daniel Cronin (Celtic fan) says...

Hi Martin, It occurred to me recently as my brother had anothered blundered flutter at the bookies that it is a rarer occurence than one would think to have all the so-called 'top four' emerge victorious in the same game week. Having then thought about the usual tabloid headlines "Spurs shock Liverpool upset!!!" I began to think, 'is it really such a surprise when one of the 'top four' drop points? My question is, how many times on average do all four (Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal) teams emerege with maximum points on the same weekend/round of games in an entire season? My guess is as low as five! Cheers Martin.

Posted 15:30 5th November 2008

Rahul Sharda (Manchester United fan) says...

Hi Martin, I have a debate with my mate all the time who is quick to remind me of how very fair referees' are towards Manchester United at giving penalties against them at Old Trafford, but I can't actually remember how many teams get are awarded a penalty at Anfield. There is only two that spring to mind the first being last season's game against Chelsea where Frank Lampard scored the penalty to make it 1-1 and a penalty for Julio Baptista in the Carling Cup the season before (which he actually didn't score). I was wondering if you could tell me how many penalties they've had against them in all competitions and the premier league in the last 4/5 seasons?

Posted 14:36 5th November 2008

Ndesh Waryuh (Liverpool fan) says...

Hi Martin. I am an avid reader of your articles. Call it being mischeveous but I have always wondered, is there any one player who has been a regular scorer and whose team has lost everytime he has scored be it an own goal. Like I thought Riise was a bad omen for liverpool if he scored against the big clubs be it in Europe.

Posted 13:59 5th November 2008
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