State of the Game debate

Week Two looks at touchline trouble that plagues the game.

Last updated: 15th April 2008  

State of the Game debate
STATE OF THE GAME
Mondays, Sky Sports News
STUDIO DISCUSSION
Monday nights, Sky Sports News
DAN ROAN'S BLOG
Read it here

Sky Sports News continue their State of the Game investigation on Monday following on from Week One which looked at dilapidated grassroots facilities across the country.

Week Two looks at the problems caused by bad behaviour on the touchlines.

More youngsters give up playing football in England than any other country in Europe and one of the major causes for this high drop-out rate is down to pressure and abuse from the touchlines.

Sports Minister Gerry Sutcliffe says more must be done to ensure parents understand not to put too much pressure on their kids.

He said: "Parents have got to understand that at a very young age - and I go to watch my grandson play who's eight - that they shouldn't be subjected to the sort of pressure that they are.

"Again, we've got to try and work with the FA and the leagues to make sure they understand that."

Week Two will focus on games being abandoned due to touchline trouble. This season 38 youth clubs in Birmingham have been reported for touchline disturbances; 14 games have been abandoned so far in Lancashire and 14 in Manchester.

Referees are also victims of over-zealous and aggressive supporters and we will be talking to some who have been forced to give up the game in fear.

If you have been a victim of touchline trouble, either as a referee, player, or supporter and want to join in the debate fill in the feedback form at the bottom of the page...

On Monday night's studio debate Sky Sports News' chief news reporter Dan Roan will be joined in the studio by Sue Law of the FA's Respect the Ref campaign and Paul Cooper from Give Us Back Our Game, an initiative aimed at cleaning up the game at grassroots level and improving coaching of children.

Watch Dan Roan's Week One report and the studio debate here

Read Dan Roan's State of the Game Week One blog here

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Comments (108)

Glen Hicks (Manchester United fan) says...

I have heard many comments regarding the state of the english game, especially at grassroots level. There is obviously major concern as to what state the game is in & more importantly where the game is going! The biggest thing we all, as adults involved in football in influential positions such as professional players, parents, coaches, teachers, referees & rule makers in the game, need to do, is take responsibility for our own actions and realise we are in a privileged position within the game, and recognise that our every word or action, whether negative or positive will potentially have an effect on young people in the game. We must move away from the blame culture, like blaming professional players for the way our children conduct themselves on a football pitch - this is a very weak mentality to have! As a football coach I create a positive environment for the junior players to play in, where the players have nothing but respect for referees, opposition & all involved in the game, as do their parents. If players/parents choose to act in a negative or aggressive way they are no longer part of the club!! It is more valuable to develop better young people than just better football ability.

Posted 12:58 17th April 2008

Mike Elliott says...

As a referee of some 20-odd years and for the last 10 years a secretary of a junior club, I can understand the problems from both sides. Parent behaviour has and unfortunately will always be a problem, especially when players are 11 and under. Parents of these children still harbour thoughts that their child might be the next superstar and earn hundreds of thousand pounds. Another issue is player behaviour on the pitch. Young players see professionals scream and shout abuse at referees so they will copy this on Sundays. If the F.A. are really going to help grassroots football and referees, then start at the top. Roping pitches off will only be useful if the teams playing can do it! Will teams playing in local parks have access to ropes? Will young referees refuse to play if they teams don't rope pitches off? Young referees shouldn't officate above their age range unless they have a mentor with them who can take charge of areas off the pitch, with the full authority to report teams to their county F.A.

Posted 14:32 16th April 2008

Jerry Lott says...

This Has been festering for years as I had these problems as a father and a coach ten years ago. A friend of mine and myself ran a variety of teams around the bristol & somerset areas using the same lads who stuck with us as they enjoyed winning. we trained the team to use tricks, tactics, and to respect the decision of the ref. The lads won a variety of trophies and represented county and some made it to bristol city & rovers academys. Not bad when you consider there were 4 from single parent familys(mothers) Trouble is you are looked upon with distain because you want to win, Ive been attacked, insulted, challenged to a fight, by Loony parents who are trying to live their life through their kids. The trouble is there is a career of fame & fortune awaiting the Lucky player. I say lucky because you need skill, determination, fitness, Pace, A huge amount of Luck. The other day I walked past an under 9 girls game and Ive never heard anything like the father screaming at his daughter about the correct way to tackle. No wonder kids and refs are packing up, it would never happen in rugby.

Posted 13:54 16th April 2008

Maureen Bourne says...

In the early nineties I managed a under 12s football team Hill Top Colts. We had fantastic support from parents and friends. But unfortunately the wanna be football coaches reared their ugly opinions on the sidelines. On numerous occasions parents would over reacted to decisions on the pitch curse and ridicule their children then turn to insults to other parents. This would ultimately boil over to the car parks at full time. The sad part is their children and other parents had to witness the stupidity over a more than often good competitive game of football. We had to separate 2 Moms at one match from physically fighting, how embarrising is that. This touchline bullying has not just happened, it has been going on for years. Let the kids play and enjoy themselves.

Posted 12:26 16th April 2008

Hal Hal says...

I have been in grass roots for nearly 10 years& have to say I have watched the decline, I have always told my players the ref has the last word & walk away, but in all fairness, the refs do have a lot to awnser too. I have lost 3 players out right for disgracefull challenges which a ref has allowed to go un punished had played a game against a team & had a player on the pitch verballly abuse us on the touchline, our parents as well as my players , & continously going on at the ref to give him decisions, which in the end he retalited grabing 1 of my players by th throught, which then sparked a retaliation from my team captain, which he was then suspended for comming onto the pitch , but the player whom had started it all got away scott free, as well as the opposition parents & manager going after my player who was only 13 years old to get there own back, which again went on & was not reported to the league. This will continue & will get worseas the refs need to set the dicipline in from the start & not tolerate it fro the off, which in our case he did not, & my player got suspended rightly so but action should of been taken against the opposition as well to set out the rules. That this will not be tolerated

Posted 11:57 16th April 2008

Walter Broeckx says...

I'm a referee in Belgium and I must say the problem is also an issue in my country. In Belgium there is a safety zone (3 metres) where only players and officials are allowed. There has to be a physical barrier around every pitch. If one of these things isn't there then there is no match. Abuse in youth games is a problem and mostly because of the bad behaviour of officials and parents. We have the right to remove officials and put them behind the barrier. We report it to the Belgium FA and then they get fined or if it happens often they can get a ban. But also in our contry we have a great dropout of referees and mostly the young refs. The things they have to hear, the verbal abuse and sometimes the physical abuse is increasing more and more. I think that FIFA and all the FAs should take severe measures to get this banned. There is a test going on in a small part where the refs have to give points to the teams for their behaviour including players, club officials and supporters. The teams get rewarded for their behaviour. In case of two teams ending with the same points, the team that had the best conduct over the season will grab the title. It once happened that after an incredible youth game with a scoreline of 5-5 (after being down 0-5 at half time) a player from the home side was one-on-one with the keeper but when he was informed by his manager that a player from the other side was injured, he kicked the ball out when he could have scored the winning goal. No need to say they got the highest marks for their behaviour that game. So it can work but it is a long way to go and everybody has to work together: the FAs, the refs, the players, the club officials and.... the supporters.

Posted 11:12 16th April 2008

John Hannon says...

I managed a team not so long ago from the age of 8 up to the age of 15. the league we entred published a sety of rules to encourage all abilities to take part in the game. No one used to stick to the rules and no one made sure that they were not broken. What sort of message is this putting out.

Posted 09:19 16th April 2008

Andrew Bush says...

hi, my son plays for under 9's and we are so lucky that no incidents have happened so far. when we go to games or tournaments, parents from both sides get on and we compliment all players on both teams. i am shocked to hear what is going on around the country. we dont need to put a barrier up for parents to stop coming onto the pitch. maybe sky should come over when we play again so we can show the rest of the country how to behave when we watch our kids play football. parents wouldnt go on to the pitch if they were at anfield, old trafford etc, so why should they when they are watching there kids play. andy from st neots

Posted 08:53 16th April 2008

Geoff Gill says...

I am involved with Pennington Lions in the Bolton & Bury District Junior league and from my experiences this is a superbly run league with over 4,500 children playing every week. The number of incidents of abuse to refs , bad behaviour are few and far between and certainly considerably less that you see in the Premiership these days. The children in the League are taught respect for the other team and to accept victory and defeat with good grace. Maybe we have been lucky to find such a well run league but I really don't see the same massive issues outlined on a regular basis.

Posted 08:26 16th April 2008

Kevin Hubbard says...

I'm currently managing an under 13 team in the Sheffield Junior Sunday League. We are a charter standard club and I am currently a level 1 coach toying with the idea of taking level 2 (If I can find time). Having taken the same team through from under 8's to under 13's I can fully appreciate the issues raised recently on Sky Sports. I have also refereed many junior games so I know what it can be like on the receiving end of disgruntled parents. Just recently I witnessed something that totally epitomised what Junior football is or should be all about. One Sunday when we had no fixture I went to watch some of the other games taking place at our club. I was watching a mini soccer game where parents were shouting and screaming (Mainly at the kids not the ref) However, what was brilliant to see was that the two teams who had already played each other had picked 2 mixed sides and were playing independently having a great time on the next pitch, surely this is what Junior football is all about for the young ones. I must admit I've never really witnessed abuse to a qualified ref in junior soccer only to parents doing their best. Should we make it easier/cheaper for working adults to qualify as refereees? Are parents trying to revive their own career through the kids? Should we only play for points when the kids reach 11 a side? Who knows what the answer is but let's not ruin grassroots football !!!!

Posted 22:22 15th April 2008

Craig Smith says...

I am a coach of Lenham Wanderers Football Club , Under 10's, 2 years ago my son used to go training along with 20 other boys, the then manager would only ever pick his best 9 players just so he could win matches. Giving the not so talented boys no chance whatsoever. I now have 14 boys / girls signed on everyone plays the same amount of time whatever there standard, we are not a succesful side but week in week out all the boys/girls come of the pitch with a smile on their face. My opinion is that whatever the childs ability they should be encouraged. Its not just about Football but about learning lifeskills aswell !!

Posted 21:43 15th April 2008

Rob Pealing says...

I referee in my local youth league and also play for a local mens team too. I find that the younger the child is the worse it is to referee. Not because of the players, it's their parents being over-protective because they know their kid won't stand up for themselves. This is when the referee gets abuse. I am confident enough to rise above it and simply report the team after the match. I think in my area the problem isn't too bad though compared to what you here the parents are generally well behaved and as the players get older the parents seem to step back as their child knows what they are doing and can stand up for themselves and it makes my life as a referee much more easier as instead of dealing with 22 players it can be 22 players and 40 odd parents who think they know the rules better than you. Really they should ask themselves that if they are so much better than you, why don't they take the course, pass the test and have the right, the honour and enjoyment of doning the black strip and wearing the three lions?

Posted 21:15 15th April 2008

Richard Elliott says...

I think most people have forgotten it is just a game, an they should not be trying to mold the next beckham. If a kid has the special something then it will show naturally. If not then like 98% of kids in this country that play football they will end up playing for a pub side and no more than that.! Just face the fact, and stop scaring and bullying your kids.

Posted 20:54 15th April 2008

Jonathan Charles-brady says...

A few years ago, whilst playing for my local under 15's side, several of my team-mates and I were racially abused by parents from the opposing team. We were called, 'monkeys' and told to, 'go back to the jungle'. The referee made no attempt intervene, but I'm not sure whether this was because he shared their views, or felt intimated and feared for his safety should he object to the behaviour of the parents.

Posted 20:11 15th April 2008

Matt Wood says...

As a PE teacher I regularly see Parents attitudes affect the development of youth football. Whilst I understand that they wish to support their children 100% there is a correct way to go about it. The majority of parents do this, but we are only as strong as our weakest link. Therefore by arguing with every refereeing decision and shouting in an aggressive manner from the sidelines, those parents are reinforcing an image we are trying to not only remove from football but society as well. On a number of occasions I have had to stop play during a game to speak to parents and ask them to seriously reconsider their actions before I call the game off. This is not acceptable.

Posted 20:01 15th April 2008

Brian Gallagher says...

I totally agree with with the critism of parents and football coaches at grass roots. I have been part of it both as a parent, coach and spectator and have witnessed some of the most appaling behaviour. However I would like to say as someone who has had two boys go on to academies that they are no better except that most if not all parents stand on the side lines and bite their lip for fear of their child being released from the club. Parents have to stand and watch their kids be humiliated by half wit coaches. Coaches at this level are totally lacking in fundamental areas of how to handle young people and they very often ridicule children and this breeds bullying both by them and by other kids who take advantage in the changing rooms. Not every child can take it some like the softly softly approach some are sensitive and respond better by a one to one approach. Our academies need to take a look at themselves before giving comments about the state of grass roots football set ups they are destroying football at the younger end, they bring boys in like cannon fodder then spitting them out when the next young hopeful comes along. Ask how many boys make it through UK academies, last I heard their was a 98% failure rate at them. My view is either close them and Prem and League clubs work with schools and clubs and let kids enjoy the game because I can tell you the vast majority of people do not enjoy watching or being involved in academies with coaches who are ignorant, big headed and in some cases stupid to the needs of our kids or get better coaching staff who understand how to get the best from every boy who comes along. Brian Gallagher

Posted 19:37 15th April 2008

Darren Russell says...

I'm a referee for a young team and even at away games, the club may not have a referee who turns up. The referee doesn't turn up because of abuse that is recieved off the touchline. I am only 14 and still get threats off parents. It is ridiculous that parents take it so seriously.

Posted 19:04 15th April 2008

Thom Spivack says...

I find this very amusing that this display of violence and misconduct is happing in England. When my kids were learning soccer(football) from English trainers they would tell us of the non involvement of parents in youth soccer in England. The U.S. had many of these types of incidents about five to ten years ago, but we started programs such as S.A.G.E. "SET A GOOD EXAMPLE". For the most part the problem has gone away. If anyone is interested I can send them the program. contact me at tspivack@optonline.net

Posted 18:21 15th April 2008

Sam Dowsett says...

i know a boy who plays in goal and if he lets in a goal his dad screams and moans at him and he gets upset.so i think before every game the ref should warn parents about their behaviour and if the parent gets out of control fined

Posted 18:07 15th April 2008

Andy Cuff says...

I am a 17 year old referee, but still play at a high level (Non-League). I passed my course at 14, and have been lucky enough to officiate at the New Wembley. However, repeatedly I am thinking about quiting as the teams really do not seem to understand that without us there would be no game. I recall one occassion about a month after I passed where I gave a free kick which a team incidently scored from, upon scoring the opposition manager came on the pitch to threaten me repeatedly with violence, verbal insults and if he wasn't restrained by parents from the other team, I honestly believe I would have been attacked and subsequently leave football as a referee. I truely believe it starts from the Managers down, as after this guy had been restrained his team soon turned on me, with insults and gestures, to which I abandoned the game. Upon reporting this event to the league, no action was taken as they had "no evidence to suggest that this mans actions were unprovoked"; basically saying they didn't think the free kick I gave was correct. Further to this in a time when we are losing referees, they have gone on to increase the price, duration and difficulty of the course, which is putting off many a people.

Posted 17:52 15th April 2008

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