Ruthless England

Join the Sky Sports Debate on England's line-up

Last updated: 17th June 2008

Toby Flood Rugby Union England Barbarians

Flood: Starting on Saturday

New Zealand v England
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England have wielded the axe ahead of the second Test in Christchurch, with only Mike Tindall and Topsy Ojo surviving in the backline to face the All Blacks.

That means Mathew Tait, so impressive in the World Cup and against the Barbarians, returns to full-back, while Danny Care, Toby Flood, Jamie Noon and Tom Varndell all start.

In the forwards only injury to Andrew Sheridan has forced interim manager Rob Andrew into a change, with Tim Payne coming in.

However, will the changes see England match New Zealand in the backs, or is it just a case of damage limitation?

Do Charlie Hodgson, Richard Wigglesworth and Mike Brown deserve to be the scapegoats for the 37-20 defeat in Auckland?

And can Nick Kennedy, Dylan Hartley, Dominic Waldouck and Tom Croft feel hard done by at not playing some part on the tour?

Join the Sky Sports Debate on England's line-up by sending us your comments via the form below.

Comments

Colin Jones says...

I dont know what all the fuss is about. England went on this tour very ill prepared, injuries key players, no perminant manager in place. Am not saying England will be the finished article when key players are fit etc. but I do think we need give Johnson time to bed himself in and be able to mould the squad. What is definately lacking in England at the moment is belief and guts, if Johno cant bring that out in the squad then England will be in the doldrums for a long time. Its time we got real and stop expecting England to win all the games all of the time, we are not good enough.....yet!

Posted 16:03 30th June 2008

Maui Hikuleo says...

Anita Bradwell....."Until the English flankers & the No.8 put more speedwork into their training they will never get around the park like the South Africans, for example Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Ryan Kankowski and Pierre Spies" Maybe that was the problem with the England team, They were preparing for the wrong team and to make things worst some team members and Andrew were verbaly attacking the All Blacks. before and after the first test. The team should stop showboating and do the talking on the rugby field.

Posted 05:46 27th June 2008

Mike Kelly says...

I think youth is definately the way forward, there is little point looking backwards. Sure keep some of the old heads in to bring the youth through. But i believe english sport especially rugby union, has a great future ahead of it. As long as players are given set positions that they play every game so they can master that positon, i play at a local standard but theres nothing more annoying than being switched positons every week. In the backline and backrow especially there are some brilliant young players, i ve watched a few clips of tom croft sprinting away from wingers/fullbacks im sorry to say that the great servant worsley has been he will never be able to do that and rugby union is an evoling sport and england have the talent to compete at the very top, but the young players need to be given the chance.

Posted 00:35 20th June 2008

Anthony Birley says...

Unfortunately for England the backs are the problem. We have lots of talent but no real structure or penetration. In every position we have quality young players. I'm baffled by the choice to take 1, out of form, fly half. Why not take Lamb and expose him the an All Black test match, he will be around much longer than Charlie. We have an embarrassment of riches in the centre but need to find the right mix fast. Tindall and Noon were good but they lack variation, they are straight up and down. Why not play Anthony Allen or Dan Hipkiss. These guys are strong physical guys but they hit subtle lines and break the gain line more often than not. You when have Waldouck, Flood, Bartley as distributors (there are others that i could name). The back three also looks good. Ojo, Strettle, Varndell, Simpson-Daniel, Monye, Tait, Benjamin, Brown, Morgan and Foden. All young guys. I think you'd agree that there aren't many countries with talent like this coming through!! We now need to give these guys the freedom and the game plan to be expansive and show their talent. It may take time but it's 3 years till the World Cup. The forwards will win ball, but the backs need to do something with it.

Posted 18:08 19th June 2008

Ronan O'connell says...

In response to Jim currans comment...ever since the world cup of 2003 England hav been a mediocre side at best...granted you did well at the world cup but its not as if you took the world by storm. You caught sides on off days and made the best of a half decent squad of players. Your six nations performance this year really showed your squads true capabilities. You have to stop living on past glories and hopeing that the experiance will get you through. You need to build a team for the future and continuity is the basis for that.

Posted 17:09 19th June 2008

Steve P says...

With the three's we have for the next game (Flood, Noon and Tindall) i think we have a better chance of winning as we have harder impact players and having noon will prevent Nonu breaking through the line. However i think Barkeley had a good game and a sweet season and is certainly much more of a playmaker than Noon. Also having Flood at 10 is a great decision for me as he has got alot of talent and is also a great playmaker, and it will give us an idea for the future. I also think that Tait is very talented with outstanding running lines, but at fullback i dont think he will has the boot for it but also hes not a hard enough hitter. Varndell certainly isnt England material, But strettle certainly is with immense speed and great lines. The forwards had an awesome game so i'd leave it as it is, however i'd like to see Hartley on at some point. I agree that for alot of the backs we have got, we are simply putting out a stronger side but not one for the future, which i think we realy should be aiming for. My ideal XV for the next game is (not including sheridan because of injury) : 1.Payne 2.Mears 3.Stevens 4.Palmer 5.Borthwick 6.Rees 7.Haskell 8.Narraway 9.Care 10.Flood 11.Strettle 12.Tindall 13.Noon 14.Ojo 15.Tait/Brown 16.Hobson 17.Hartley 18.Kennedy 19.Lipman 20.Barkley 21.Sackey 22.Brown

Posted 17:01 19th June 2008

Nick Crosbie says...

Interesting comments - on the whole I think the selection for this Saturday is a damage limitation selection without any particular eye for the future - I cannot think what is to be gained from that centre pairing otherwise. Tough on Barkley I agree but this tour is showing us that we miss the assurance of an in form and fit No 10 - whether that be Cipriani or Wilkinson. For what it's worth, my ideal England 22 wouldn't differ that much from Johnny W's team: 15. Lewsey 14. Sackey 13. Tindall 12. Flutey/Barkley 11. Simpson Daniel 10. Cipriani 9. Ellis 8. Haskell 7. Rees 6. Croft 5. Kennedy 4. Shaw 3. Vickrey 2. Hartley 1. Sheridan 16. Stevens 17. Mears 18. Chris Jones 19. Lipman 20. Care 21. Geraghty 22. Banahan/Tait/Ojo

Posted 15:07 19th June 2008

Krys Jilks says...

Still worry about Tait at full back yes he has talent but did anyone see what Andy Goode did to him in the premiership game ? Flood is no way a 10 and why wasnt Waldouk given a chance instead of one of the bash twins ? Our damage limitation extends to the bench as well where we have the well known impact players of Kay and Worsley to come on !!! YAWN why did Kennedy and Croft who offer something different not get a shot ? With this team we might get beaten by a few more points but at least it would have some speed and talent

Posted 13:47 19th June 2008

Jim Curran says...

Ronan O'connell: "will lead to continued mediocrity for years to come". Your judgement must be severly flawed to believe two World Cup Finals in two successive tournament is mediocrity. I suggest failure to get out of WC group stages as mediocrity. In football, Brazil peak just at the right time for the World Cup despite lean years in between. Does anyone refer to them as mediocre? No, of course not. England is a work in progress, but has the raw talent to once again become the undisputed number 1 team in the world.

Posted 13:41 19th June 2008

Dominic Lown says...

I think the comment was made during the game on saturday. Barkely admitted he had no practice time at 10, then Andrew, a former international 10 moves him there for final 30 minutes. I know pride will play a huge part in playing for your country, but when the likes of Tait, Barkley, Lewsey and to an extent shaw over the years get messed around so much, how can you then expect them to play world class rugby.

Posted 13:36 19th June 2008

Ronan O'connell says...

I think the english need to realise that they are not the force they once were in world rugby. Currently i dont think they have the talent or experiance to match any of the southern hemisphere sides and need to look into building for the future. They need to stick with a squad and develop it, this may mean that they will take a few hammerings along the way, but in time if they put faith in a young talented squad the team will come good. I dont think it is in their interests to keep changing around their team as none of their young talented players will have a chance to develop. this nonsence of changing 5 out of their 7 backs will just be detrimental to the country in the long run, and will lead to continued mediocrity for years to come.

Posted 12:42 19th June 2008

Will Burnham says...

The selection policy for this tour of NZ seems to be as follows: Introduce a few promising new players but surround them with experience so they don't start their international careers at the end of a 60-point massacre. We all remember the 'tour to hell' when England took a young 2nd team down under and were buried, something which should never happen again, so it's hard to argue with the policy - question is how well have they followed that policy with this selection? Having watched test-level rugby all my life I do think that it takes 10 or so caps for a new player, however gifted, to get to the pace - especially against the really top teams (NZ, SA) and in the pivotal positions of 8, 9, 10 and 15. That being so, you have to ask the question "after a full 6 nations season and some serious experience against NZ/Aus/SA can this guy be among the best 3 in the world in his position?". You can never be sure but in saturday's team I'd say Care, Haskell and Rees are all decent bets so they are 'pluses'. I'd like to see Kennedy and Croft in the squad with a chance of some game-time - we know all about Kay and Worsley already and they're the past. I can't see the point of dropping Barkley for Noon just to stop Ma'a Nonu - that is so negative especially on a development tour because England have to find a world-class 12 from somewhere and it ain't going to be Noon. Also Rob, Jonno, et al - can you please make up your minds about Tait and give him a decent run in a settled position. Thank you.

Posted 11:11 19th June 2008

Alex Harden says...

Watch the replays and you will see Charlie Hodgson time and again stepping out of the way allowing the All blacks to maraude through. It was'nt just one tackle off the set piece, it was in broken play all over the field. Strettle, for all his grace and movement, had a 1 on 2 that you would back most ruthless finishers to bury. We have a world class full back who can stand up the physicallity, his name is Lewsey. Unfortunately we will never know the true reasons for his continued abscence. The defence coaching shows no sign of actually existing.

Posted 11:11 19th June 2008

Paul Eveleigh says...

Ruthless England! Give it up! England need to be ruthless on the pitch, as well as team selection, and I think we can all say it has been five glorius years since we last witnessed that. No, England are grasping at straws - not to be confused with ruthlessness.

Posted 10:45 19th June 2008

Darren Burke says...

I cannot for believe that england dropped Tait in the first place! You have to have him in the starting 15 even if he palying on the wing. he is brillant! it is the same as south africa recently dropping styen! I like the 15 starting against the all blacks, i do have some concerns tho, but lets see what happens in the game, my concerns might be wrong. what i do not understand is why england brought back Hodgson, he is rubbish. i watched england play live in the six nations at home a couple of years ago against france and i thought england where very good, however there was a player that was rubbish and that was Hodgson, england should have have home the game buy a big score, but he missed penalties after penalties and england lost. he also has no creativity and i think his kicking for touch is shocking and puts england under pressure! so why was he even chosen, i would rather see ben kay at number 10! lol!

Posted 10:15 19th June 2008

David Browne says...

Rob Andrew is showing muddled thinking - Hodgson could never tackle yet he is the only specialist fly half on tour. Olly Barkley is dropped for his no. 10 performance yet is a great 12. An ordinary 12 is put at fly half - yet another case of Newcastle (ex in this case) players being handed places despite being average club players rather than exciting internationals. A great 13 is now at 12 in Noon - he'll plug gaps but can't distribute. The other great 13 is at 13 ie Tindall. Him and noon are the same player and can't coexist. Fine with Tait getting a run (dynamic vs the leaden feet of Brown) and Varndell (a real finisher vs the lightweight Strettle). Line should read 12: Barkley, 13: Tindall or Noon and at 10? Well call in Goode in the absence of Cipriani as there is nobody British and fit left! Let's hope Johnson isn't so muddled when he starts properly and let's then hope that Rob Andrew stays behind a desk. With our watertight but boring 10 - 12 - 13 we'll not lose by a mile but we will lose and be dull as ditch water!

Posted 18:47 18th June 2008

Chris Mossop says...

The team selection is fine given the tour squad and will no doubt be different when all the absentees return. Given the opposition, I would have thought we would have kept our mouths well and truly shut. There is no point in raising the issues that have been raised and reported in the press. Why do it, it gains nothing and shows a distinct lack of maturity. We turn up, work our tails off and hopefully win and then go home. who needs the mouthing off about who did what and how the ref missed this. Give me a break.

Posted 16:50 18th June 2008

Karl Lelyveld says...

finally a good decison. england should have stuck to the team that got to the final or start from scratch looking to the future but no, they use mix and match and hope for the best scrapping through games, way to go england be at the back while everyone goes forward. SORT IT OUT pick on form nothing else!!!!!!

Posted 16:14 18th June 2008

Lee Bushell says...

mike brown looked like a rabbit caught in headlights.. bring the kids to the party, cipriani, benjamin, banahan, et al

Posted 14:24 18th June 2008

Rob B says...

Where is Anthony Allen??? If this tour was meant to be about pitting the youth of England talent against the best in the world to see what they are made of, why do we not have the future of England on the mix? Come 2011 an EXPERIENCED backline of care, cipriani, allen/flutey, *undecided OC* ojo/strettle, sackey/varndell and tait would destroy and team put in front of them! Rob Andrew is not looking at the bigger picture and we are doing the same as after '03 and just tryin to scrape through games with a few wins now and again rather than building the foundation for a world class team.

Posted 12:28 18th June 2008

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