Jonny - the debate
Last updated: 8th February 2008
Wilkinson: In the last chance saloon?
Single-handedly, I felt that World Cup campaign changed when Wilkinson returned.
Will Greenwood
Quotes of the week
Thursdays on Sky Sports
Related links
Teams
Also see
From the moment Wales completed their remarkable comeback at Twickenham last Saturday, the rugby world started speculating on what changes needed to be made to Brian Ashton's England team.
Not long after the dust settled, some began to suggest the once unthinkable idea that Jonny Wilkinson - the man who kicked the winning drop goal in the 2003 World Cup final and is credited for inspiring England to a return to the final in 2007 - should be dropped.
The argument - presented by Stuart Barnes - is that England should be looking forward, not back to 2003 or even 2007, and that there are younger, more inspirational players available, most notably Danny Cipriani.
But not everyone is convinced. Will Greenwood contends that one bad game doesn't make Wilkinson a bad player and any decision to discard him should not be made in haste.
Here is what the pair had to say on the Rugby Club...
WILL GREENWOOD: Danny Cipriani is ready to play international rugby but my feeling for what England require at this precise moment in time is that Jonny Wilkinson should stay there: for the intangibles he brings to the changing rooms. Single-handedly I felt that World Cup campaign changed when he returned.
He missed a few weeks and Cipriani took up the mantle, but Wilkinson came back, got games under his belt and began to run games again. At 19-6 up, not one of those points that turned the game had his fingerprints anywhere near it. He's a fantastic rugby player, he leads well and on the back of picking him next week - with those five guys being changed as well - it is so important to have him in that dressing room.
He made errors and I know he didn't have a fantastic game but I am not going to change my opinion of the guy, having been with him in a changing room, knowing what he brings to a side and an environment within the space of a week.
STUART BARNES: Brian Ashton says it's the British media and 'tall poppy syndrome', but Brian is looking in the mirror when he looks at Jonny Wilkinson - he's seeing what he wants to see.
Jonny Wilkinson before 2003 was the best fly-half in the world, no doubt about it at all, and if he was playing like that there would be no question that he should be England's fly-half, because Cipriani is full of talent and potential, but is nowhere near realising it.
But the fact is, Wilkinson in his wonder years is four years ago. Or plus.
It's not to turn round and say Jonny has done this for England. That is absolutely true but Prince Obolensky was a good winger, but we're not saying pick him. There has to come a time when you say 'what has he done recently?'
Brian Ashton says we have to move the game on and not just stay where we are but with Jonny Wilkinson at the moment it seems to me symptomatic of the England team: settling for the past and looking backwards, not forwards.
GREENWOOD: I'm not going to say Wilkinson can continue to play the way he's playing and stay in the England team. This week he will be in the last-chance saloon and Cipriani is breathing down his neck. But I have all the confidence and all the faith in the world that Jonny will put together a performance, amid a new team that needs leaders and game controllers, to turn this around.
BARNES: You can't turn around and say Jonny Wilkinson has all the skill, he has the aura and he leads the team and then say somehow, come Croke Park, come England-Wales, there's nothing happening.
If it's not happening then it's somehow deflection and it's not Jonny Wilkinson. He is either the great player in charge of things, or he's not.
GREENWOOD: He didn't have a good game, I'm not saying that. I'm talking about control and it's very difficult to understand the intangibles, that he doesn't necessarily have to play well for the team around him to play well.
I just feel sticking Danny Cipriani in is a knee-jerk reaction. Yes, he's playing well, yes he's ready for international rugby, but my view on the progress of the England team is little and often, moving forward slowly.
Jonny Wilkinson is in the last-chance saloon, no question about it. Another poor performance and out he goes and in comes Cipriani.
BARNES: I just don't understand why we're taking so long to get there. Look at Cipriani against Munster.
I know it wasn't a full house, but Thomond Park is an intimidating place and there was no Paul Sackey, no Riki Flutey - who is supposed to be his foil - the pack crumbled and Vickery and Dallaglio froze, yet Cipriani played with calm assurance.
With Jonny Wilkinson when things started to go wrong against Wales, he froze. We've talked about that bad pass and if ever there was a sign of a bloke losing his cool, that was it.
I've got to ask again, why are we sticking with Jonny Wilkinson? He has to prove to us that he is the player he was when England won the World Cup in 2003.
GREENWOOD: That's a very, very good question and I'll go back to the issue that what you get with Wilkinson is control, leadership. He had a poor game (against Wales) but he has been getting better and moving forward - and he can get back to that form of 2003.
- Video
Comments
Sebastian Roberts says...
I think this debate is ridiculous. Everybody saw england's games in the world cup that they played without jonny and then the dominance he possesed when he came back into the side. Stuart Barnes has been wanting him out for long then just the Wales game but there is no reason for it. The 2007 world cup physically and mentally drained Wilkinson, so the first game back he is bound to be a bit rusty. That 2007 world cup form cant be far away, and when he gets there he will only get better.
Posted 09:42 11th February 2008
Peter Figg says...
i think the debate surrounding jonny wilkinson is incredible. The world cup proved what a player of stature and quality he is and the first game he has back wasn't his best but why judge him so harshly. Put cipriani in at full back and allow jonny the space we owe him
Posted 10:43 10th February 2008
Baruch Spiegel says...
If you are going to change every player that had a bad game against wales then about 13 players should go. The whole point is that when the forwards and backs are playing as cohesive units then we win games. No one man should carry the weight of the whole team on his shoulders, not even the captain.
Posted 09:35 10th February 2008
Toby Expat says...
I don´t think anyone can question J.W.´s qualities as a fly-half, nor his commitment to the game; what may now be open to question is his ability, under pressure, to "manage" the game, not just the backs but the whole focus of the team, and his performance against Wales perhaps shows how much protection, and thus time to think, he enjoyed in the Martin Johnson era. The back row of Dellaglio, Back and especially Hill were a well- honed unit and gave J.W. something of an arm-chair ride. Now the back row has changed completely, and is still developing cohesion, and is more concerned with what it should be doing, individually and collectively to meet its own remit than with protecting the No 10: as a result, J.W. has to react to situations seconds quicker than he did in the 2003 side, and seconds can be all that matters in international rugby. This does not take anything away from J.W.´s qualities, both on and off the field, but it does suggest that captaincy is not something which sits comfortably with him, and is not a burden which he should carry.
Posted 08:19 10th February 2008
Derek Richardson says...
Please correct me if wrong but was Wilkinson the only player on the field for England. One poor game (by his standard) does not mean he is past his sell by date.
Posted 05:52 9th February 2008
Add Comment*
All fields are required