State of the Game debate

State of the Game looked at the problem of participation.

Last updated: 29th April 2008

State of the Game debate

STATE OF THE GAME
Mondays, Sky Sports News
STUDIO DISCUSSION
Monday nights, Sky Sports News
DAN ROAN'S BLOG
Read it here

Also see

Across the country, the number of people playing 11-a-side football is falling.

Why is this the case? Is the problem across the board and at all age groups and both sexes? What is being done about it?

These are some of the questions we asked as our State of the Game series investigated the issue of participation in grassroots football.

Sky Sports News' Chief News Reporter Dan Roan investigated why more and more people are abandoning the 11-a-side game.

He discovered that people are increasingly opting to play midweek five-a-side games on synthetic pitches instead of spending half a day at a weekend to go and play on poor-quality grass surfaces.

The FA are certainly aware that there's a problem and are keen to preserve the 11 a side format.

We' spoke to Sir Trevor Brooking and he admitted something needs to be done to preserve the 11-a-side format, especially among young adults.

He said: "Five-a-side is aside is massively growing, mini soccer is massive, girls' football is the biggest girls sport in the country.

"So we've gained in other areas, but eleven v eleven is something we want to protect and it's really the 16-25 age group where the dropout is, due to cost, studies and further education.

"They tend to drip back in the 25-plus age group, but we've got to try and arrest that."

Click on the video link on the top right to watch Dan's report in full.

We want to hear your thoughts on the matter. Why are numbers falling? Share your views with us using the feedback form below.

To find out more about State of the Game click here

Comments (49)

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Graeme Mock says...

The 5 a side scene is far more appealing these days to all. For example, I used to play at LFC's academy as a kid, but didnt quite make the grade. I turned to other 11 a side teams locally, but having being spoilt with Liverpool FC's facilities, i found it extremely difficult to pick myself up to play on a boggy field and get changed in a car boot! After realising my dream of becoming a professional were all but over, I discovered futsal, and how I wish i'd discovered it years earlier! Futsal is indoor 5 a side, and is recognised in almost every country in the world, except the UK! England does have a national futsal team, but the squad is made up of semi pro footballers. Being good at the 11 a side gam doesnt make you good at futsal. Its far more technical, and quick! Players like Ronaldo and Ronaldinho praise futsal and say how much it helped them to develop their skills they show on a weekly basis on the grass! I think the FA are trying hard to promote futsal as much as they can, but most people in this country just dont want to know. If you go to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Czezh Rep.... they have dedicated professional futsal leagues, with players earning good money and in some cases VERY good money! I think futsal could benefit the 11 a side game so much, we just dont know enough about it in the country. Not once have I heard futsal mentioned on Sky.... maybe it could be looked into!

Posted 12:34 8th May 2008

Michael Laidlaw says...

The problem is that Governments and Councils don't care about sport facilities enough. Recently I tried to get a pitch for my Amatuer Team to get training once or twice a week and all the pitches available had to be booked and paid for! That would be fair enough if the pitches were of top quality but they are not. We play on pitches every week which are used for Hockey, Shinty, American Football and Rugby not to mention other events in which tents and stands are erected for use by the public. People fail to grasp the idea that if there were 3 or 4 readily available maintained pitches then you would find less youths drinking and more of them playing sport. Not to devalue any other sport but Footall is the biggest in the world. It should get priority over other sports.

Posted 13:31 7th May 2008

Jamie Tierney (Manchester United fan) says...

The main problem is that kids are not encouraged enough to play sport in general, not just football. It is all very well the government coming out and saying our kids are unfit and don¿t play enough sport, well reducing the amount of PE lessons kids do at school didn¿t help did it! Getting rid of competition and non competitive sports days has had an affect. Also selling the playing fields to build houses on was hardly for the benefit of our childrens health. Kids used to be able to play on school fields after school or go and play in the playgrounds and play football, tennis, cricket etc. Now the school fields and the playgrounds are behind big metal fences and locked up. Children can¿t play there and in this day and age where parents are worried to send their children out to play in the streets, they end up playing their computers instead. In terms of development one of the problems is that they get stereotyped at a young age. If you are tall and can kick it far you play at Centre Half, if you are small and quick then you are a winger. We need to start to look at the way the dutch do things. A youngster doesn¿t get a set position until they reach a certain age, every game they change position and don¿t just end up stuck in a role until they have developed. So therfore one game they could be a right back then the week after a forward. This way we can develop football players who are comfortable with the football and can adapt to different formations and who understand the game. Coaching needs to be brought out of the dark ages, I know that winning and competition is important but sometimes we all need to start thinking more about player development than winning. We need to look at the bigger picture rather than seeing how far our young player can kick the ball. Getting rid of competition altogether is typical of the nation we are becoming, the PC brigade have a lot to answer for.

Posted 12:48 1st May 2008

Adrian Hart says...

Unfortunately a mixture of things cause football to deteoriate at grass roots and that includes the participants and and other sports becoming more popular. In Newport, South Wales it was easier to join a running club, cricket club or rugby team then to get in a football team growing up. I am 31 now and 15 years ago teams were folding in the 16-25 age group because a mix of finance, facilities or enthusiasm for the game. I remember getting about 4 weeks into pre-season training with Pill AFC before being told there was not gonna be a team for under 16's or under 18s and was a similar trend accross the region. Also some clubs had interest in you, only if you were of a high standard not someone who likes a kick about even if had a fair standard of ability. Another problem is depending on the area some of us live and the jobs we have depends if we can play once education etc is over as i know in newport even as an educated man i was still shafted with factory work for a long time where the area had nothing else and no money to move on to a different area. As for 5 a side the reality of it's growth is teams often get set up by local companies and friends who just have to make a phone call to book a pitch pay £15-30 quid and the jobs done without any searching for sponsors for pitch fees, kits, insurance. The level is not so high but people have fun with it and know they are not the next Pele, Best or Maradonna. Facilities, coaches won't change things much except in the areas where you have people wanting to play. Need the participants who have the time and money in some cases too as a saturday at time and a half is hard to turn down when you have mouths to feed, if is not part of your already scheduled week.

Posted 08:59 30th April 2008

Tony Harrison says...

I am the Treasurer of a local football club and to be honest I am struggling. The age group in particular do not want to have to spend money on playing football but the sad fact of the matter is, it costs a lot for pitches, kits etc and without sponsorship a lot of clubs like ours will not survive. I think that The FA should be looking to assist clubs in paying for pitches etc to keep the costs down for the players and make it more attractive for lads to give up their Saturday afternoon. The Leagues also need to be more responsible, if a club fails regularly to find players enough to field a side, fining the club £50 sinks the club further towards breaking up

Posted 08:26 30th April 2008

Bob Livingstone (Forest Green fan) says...

I run a Sunday morning adult side it's hard work especially the costs pitches referees & training etc. Most of my players are that 18-25 age group that falls away i'm lucky they want to play but if I didnt have them pay we would be in serious trouble & more than likely fold I have asked numerous agencies for help including the Football Association who we must register to play only to be told because we are technically an adult side we cant get any help so if that is happening to my side its surely happening to others people at the top want to look at that & help us keep football going at our level

Posted 22:08 29th April 2008

Barry Hood says...

Does it really matter if numbers are dropping off at 16-25 age group we must concentrate on the primary or junior schools give them the right coaching at this age pass the advanced ones on to skill centres and into league clubs development systems. If they have not been coached properly at these ge groups they will never make it in the professional game.

Posted 22:02 29th April 2008

Elliot Wright says...

I am afraid to say participation in 11 a side football is decreasing as a result of the previous 'State of the game' debates. As a PE teacher and manager of an U14's team i regularly see the constant battle young players have to endure within their football of the obsession of winning as opposed to development of their skills and abilities, these pressures stemming from coaches and parents alike. In my opinion it is this that underpins a lot of the issues in the debate on the recent state of the game debates. To explain often the opinions and focus of parents of a particular match involved at my club revolve around the result rather than the performance, a view that will clearly 'rub off' on their children. It then becomes my job as a teacher/coach to reverse this view and justify to the youngsters the reasons why development is more important than results, a losing battle some may suggest. Consequently this view impacts on the unacceptable behaviour towards referees, from parents/coaches therefore its no surprise there are reports of a high number of dysfunctional games of football. So what happens as a result of this?.....decrease in 11 v 11 participation. 5 aside's gain it seems, a method of football played with no screaming coach and parents on the side of the pitch, a chance to enjoy their football and an opportunity to have more involvement in the game due to fewer players per team. This as a result of under-developed footballers in this country and an inability of most to have a high involvement in a 11 aside game due to the ethos of winning over development. Each debate or issue highlighted within this series has a knock-on effect to another. As for lack of talent development at the top level....are we surprised?

Posted 17:05 29th April 2008

Din Bebe (Liverpool fan) says...

Football all over the world has made amazing trasitions except in this country.I dont agree when analyst place the problems with facilities, I think its the way we play the game in this country or our philosophy of the game whereby a whole lot of emphasis are placed on athletic abilities rather skill and technical abilities.It might be fun to watch our game because of the pace in the games but when it comes to the crunch on the international stage or where there are 11 english international on a field we are always found wanting because we dont have the skill and football brains to beat these countries.We have to change the way we approach our game in order for kids to come out and play the game and enjoy it rather than them thinking of going to play football as some sort of physical toture.I was watching the Fifa U-17 world cup late last year and i was impressed with the English kids especially Victor Moses,Lansbury,Danny Welbeck,Rose,Murphyand Gosling, I was amazed by thier technical ability and skill level these kids gave me hope and optimism.

Posted 15:29 29th April 2008

Katie Cropper (huge liverpool fan) says...

I can understand why the numbers of 11 a side teams are going down because to be on a girls team you have to be at the top standard and not need any improvements. I woukld love to play in a girls football team and i am playing for my school just so i can get some games and try and imprve. I know i won't be as good as the ebst players but sport should be there for anyone and everyone. Rules need to change there should be no trials just turn up train and have fun. I am 15 and am always looking for a team but it is hard.

Posted 13:56 29th April 2008

Dave Lochtie says...

The facilities are not the reason 11 a-side is dropping and certainly not the reason for our lack of international success. As someone stated if the slums of Rio can produce great players there's no reason why we can't. Its a cliche but all you needs is an open park and jumpers for goalposts to have a kick-about, it is the standard of coaching that takes takes us beyond that. There is nothing wrong with 5 to 7-a-side it encourages technical development (particularly in younger players). One of the reasons 16-25 year olds in general are going away from 11 a side is that it frees up their weekends to work (and go out drinking on a Friday & Saturday) whilst they can fit football in to an hour during the week. Is this really a problem? We are talking about players who have not made it to a decent level by early adulthood and are playing for competitive fun. I can't honestly believe anyone who has any chance of ever making it for England will choose not to play 11-a-side as a young adult? Yes continued investment is needed at grass roots but if we want to build a great national side this should be focused on the coaching of youngsters not Sunday league teams who are big enough to take care of themselves. Until the money currently going to agents, players and foreign investors can be channelled back into the game and the top teams (by which I mean the top two divisions not just the top four) prioritise youth development no great improvements will be made. Sadly, as clubs are now businesses (and therefore almost solely concerned with their own welfare) this probably won't happen unless they are forced to play a high percentage of English players.

Posted 12:22 29th April 2008

Dan Mckie (Everton fan) says...

One problem we have is havin little kids playing on full size pitches being told to kick it as far as they can! There needs to be a progression, start them on 5 a side and get them passin and moving, then up to 7 a side as they get older and use the wider pitches and THEN have them playing on full size pitches when they hit the early teens!

Posted 12:17 29th April 2008

Wayne Ashworth (Manchester United fan) says...

I run two adult football teams in the Stockport & District Sunday Football League, it cost's us £1400 per annum in pitch fee's to Stockport MBC. The pitches are a disgrace, but it's a case of pay up or fold. There are no incentives, no encouragement whatsoever for anyone to get out of bed, off the streets etc and play football. I'm afraid Sunday league football is in terminal decline, we lost six teams out of our league this season due to lack of players / funds / interest etc and I know it's the same across the country.

Posted 06:26 29th April 2008

Tony Cicero (Arsenal fan) says...

I think the problem lies in more complaining than simply getting on with the game. Let's remember that refs are human, players make mistakes that they feel need a source to blame and pitches will always influence games. I'm from africa and I'd say that a majority of pitches/parks in UK are above standard in terms of recreational play. When u play recreationally, you basically only need to make sure that goals determine who wins a game. Play with what you have. Think of what talent emerges from slums none more prominent than the slums of Rio De Janeiro where football is played barefoot and skill is the ultimate weapon not criticism. Let's get on with it!

Posted 02:59 29th April 2008

Orlando Correia (Manchester United fan) says...

the real problem with the state of the game in this country isn't the facilites, although admittedly they are poor. It is in fact the lack of quality coaching and management. There is no innnovation and no improvement. We can all learn and all improve but even at semi-profressional level the standard of coaching and management is poor. How is a player supposed to improve further once he has reached his peak if he doesnt have a coach to push him and teach him, and help him progress his game further. I think 5-a-side is a brilliant idea. It helps emphasise the technical side of the game that this country lacks. Also the lack of opportunities for kids is scary. In West London alone there were dozens of extremely talented kids. However if they arent picked up early on and well coached, they end up straying and sadly losing their love of the game, dissilusioned by the system, and end up drugged up in council estates. We need support, encouragement and opportunities. Africa & south america & even many european countries have graval pithes as a luxury. so we cant say its coz of that we arent progressing. We need to change our attitudes and support flair, technique. Too often at youth level, its about size & build. Physique is important but it outweighs too often skill and flair. That is what we want in football. falir, excitement and entairtainment. the beautuful game!!!

Posted 20:59 28th April 2008

Harry Padfield (Portsmouth fan) says...

Its crazy to think that top players make so much money and hardly have to put any of that back into the game that they are ment to love and the people who live for football are stuck to play football on fields that are not fit for it . The F.A has really distanced its self from the public and lives behind redtape . Unless the F.A changes its ways and does some thing instead of just talking about what good it does nothing will change and us hardcore football fans will be left to sort it out are selfs .

Posted 20:01 28th April 2008

Neil Disson (Cardiff City fan) says...

The only way you will improve grass roots football is by making the so-called bigger clubs recognising the need for young British players to come though the ranks rather than constantly buying players from abroad who are (let's be honest) only here for the money. It is now starting to affect teams in the lower leagues who are struggling because of this. Let's start ploughing money into the leagues next season and see lots more home grown talent rather than foreigners.

Posted 19:41 28th April 2008

Will Bowen (Middlesbrough fan) says...

I think there seems to be a huge gap between schools / FA development and local clubs its all about ticks in boxes and not the players - the FA people who get paid dont really do enough to support us unpaid volunteers - the trouble is the FA have no faith in the grass roots section - this needs to be addressed and the FA need to do more and redesign the level 1 as it is far too easy. The FA developement people are also very good at taking away players for academies and this is wrong they should be allowed to play with their mates at grass roots and academies. I also believe the issue with grass pitches or the lack of them is to do with money and the need or wants for local councils to make more money so we dont have to pay a higher rate of council tax - its £24 for grass pitch a game and £44 for astro turf hire for a hour - it makes financial sense to get rid of pitches and go for astro turf. Incidently I think that the use of astro turf is having a negative effect on players and their skills - the ball moves differently From my point of view - we need to get all club to be charter standard and get all leagues to become charter standard and insist that Managers or coaches who remonstart with referees are booted out - my experience is if you as a coach or manager do it the kids will then do it the the parents - let the ref, ref and let the kids play. I see that some leagues are now not being competitive - well this is wrong - The FA seem to go around a problem as opposed to trying to fix it. Lets us train and play in peace and GIVE US OUR GAME BACK

Posted 19:35 28th April 2008

Rob Molloy (Reading fan) says...

I used to watch my dad play in my home town in the early to mid 80's, 25 years on sunday league teams are still playing on the same standard of pitches and even using the same changing rooms yet at a cost which is hundreds of pounds more than was paid in my dads era. On top of that teams are fined for every little thing yet all this money which goes to local councils and the fa ends up, well who knows where? but it certainly does not go on facilities which may encourage more people to play and run their own teams.

Posted 19:00 28th April 2008

Lee Nichols (Liverpool fan) says...

I've been running a 11 a side sunday team since 1999 and have to agree that it gets harder every year. Our league has shrunk dramatically over the past five years. It costs us in excess of £1500 just to operate every year. The government want people to go back into sport but don't offer any grants etc unless you are providing for the wider community. The increased pressure of work has also had an impact with more people working weekends. Another factor this year has been the increased pub opening hours. It seems to be getting more difficult to get people out of bed in the mornings.

Posted 18:59 28th April 2008
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