Out of ideas

Out of ideas

Stuart Barnes says that, sadly, England must now accept their limitations at the World Cup.

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Comments (20)

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Kevin Mitchell says...

England will get nowhere relying on a penalty here and a drop goal there by a forward pack only approach. All the big three will give up few penalty chances and the goal line defense will make Wales look like preschoolers. Look at the AB's this year they have hit fast,defended from 1 to 15 like loose forward and have taken pride in scoring tries and defending their own try line.

Posted 21:34 17th August 2011

Chris Smith says...

Isn't it about this time pre world cup that we can expect Mike Catt the make a miraculous return out of know where and save the day. He has done it the last two times, why not again?

Posted 18:00 16th August 2011

Gary Smith says...

1. The return of Youngs is crucial to any chance we might have. It is not possible to win quick ball AND get it away from the breakdown with pace when Care is playing. 2. I can not remember the last time we scored a try through the backs when the ball has passed through Tindall's hands. He is undoubtedly a good defender but has become a liability in attack. Surely it is better to have an OC with a better balance. 3. Cueto and Tindall are both quite slow for modern backs. 4. Armitage is a classy player so surely he should be out on the pitch somewhere even if Foden is at FB. 5. Flutey is returning and is ring-rusty, but at least he has shown in the past that he has what it takes. He should be given the chance against Ireland to get some game time. 6. Backs for me would be: Youngs, Flood/Wilkinson, Flutey, Tuilagi, Ashton, Armitage, Foden. 7. Most international coaches would be able to do something with that back line. Did I get anything wrong?

Posted 13:02 16th August 2011

Gee Peeo says...

Stuart, you sound like you've only just found out that England are boring and can't break a team down. Save a couple of blips, they've been like that for the 30 years I've been watching them mate.

Posted 10:22 16th August 2011

Stephen Metcalfe says...

Going back to Wilkinson may seem like a step backwards but at least all the other 14 players know what their 10 will do, do you not think as with Flood they seem to be rabbits in the headlights. He has the uncanny knack of keeping the scoreboard ticking and had he played at Millenium stadium England could well have gone in 6-15 up? The centres are Englands biggest malaise and the only person to put a hand up and say I want a starting shirt is Tuilagi, if the others are the best England have to offer then we are in a perilous state, Who would you choose? oh for a Greenwood, or a Guscott. I always thought Flood was a centre converted to a 10? remember the dim and distant past at Newcastle - 10 Wilkinson, 12 Flood, 13 Tait. Can England also please stop this static rugby where a group of 3 or 4 forwards just collect the ball off 9 and drop to the floor I always thought the idea was to play it (rugby) on the front foot? Maybe i was brought up in a different era but its not a hard game to play. Quick ball with players running on to the ball with depth and pace and running at space not trying to do the macho and run over their opposition. At the minute England are a bigger version of Leicester where biggest is always the winner?? Thoughts

Posted 08:15 16th August 2011

Ken Joe says...

Hi Stuart, Your assessment of England based on a warm up with players who have not played in 3 months is over pessimistic. It is akin to writing off South Africa's world cup chances based on their shocking warm ups - no-one wants to play SA not even a confident Wales! Yes England lacked creativity (not a new problem which was cured previously). Let us see how they perform against Ireland and in their first game against Argentina. I suspect that Hape will be replaced by Flutey in tandem with Tindall and with Tuilagi on the bench. Against Ireland, England will not turn down kickable penalties. England's biggest mistaking was not taking points on offer against Wales (poor captaincy by Tindall unless under instruction) and thereby amping up the pressure on themselves - purely self inflicted and a lesson learned. If England had kicked the 3 or so penalties they would have been 6-9 points ahead at half time and this soul searching would have been avoided. Wales have a razor sharp back line with a retreating pack and limited squad depth. England have a tough pack, good squad depth and a backline that needs tweeking but scored the most tries in the 6N (13) - I know where I would rather be!

Posted 06:46 16th August 2011

Alex Smith says...

Dear Stuart, I think your claim that England have gone absolutely nowhere is a bit of a strong statement to make. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I agree that Hape and Tindall are real problems in this England backline, however, as you will know, England stated after the game that it was their intention to practice the moves they performed in training ahead of the world cup. Although I think that such a strategy is an insult for the English fans who traveled to Cardiff to see England win and the players should have showed a bit of maturity and taken the goals on offer when plan A obviously wasn't working. Let's not judge this England side based on one performance. If they are annihilated by Ireland, then I will start to get a bit more concerned, however regardless of the result of the next 80 mins England play, there is alot to be positive about in this England side, just look at the players which Johnson has blooded: Tom Croft, Courtney Lawes, Ben Foden, Chris Ashton and Ben Youngs, these players have serious talent. England showed a lot of tactical naivety this weekend, with the exception of Foden, they had no speedsters, therefore Flood's inside ball was too easily markable and they shouldn't have insisted of sending Hape and Banahan down that channel time after time. They have alot to work on, but they have the playing squad to fix it.

Posted 01:22 16th August 2011

Dave Short says...

I thionk we can all agree that the Tindal /Hape center pairing has been a disaster. I have to agree the time has come to move Manu to 12 and play Armatage at 13 both have pace can defend and most important are in form .M.Tindal should now only be a bench player (if he gose) atm id be very tempted to leave him behind leader or not as his form for the last year hasnt been good . I would rather take a chance by taking C.sharples myself or if Moody needs time H.fourie but he has to sharpen up like the whole pack when it comes to the breakdown

Posted 21:58 15th August 2011

Joe Kenny says...

there is no way england are better odds than ireland to win the rugby world cup did you not see the irish take them apart in the 6 nations. as usual england are so overhyped,great pack useless backs. How mike tyndall is built up is ridiculous the guy cant pass sure hes not bad on a crash ball but the not going to break defenses.They are so one dimensional you cant help but feel its gotta be a coaching problem,find a backs coach that can actually utilise foden,ashton,flood and youngs they have undouted talent.

Posted 18:24 15th August 2011

Fraser Ross says...

I think you're being overly harsh on your compatriots there Stuart. I woudn't write off England just because of a warm up game. In fact, as a Scot, I'm quite worried that this setback will make them a wounded animal, but we will see. What do you make of Scotlands chances of topping the pool?

Posted 18:20 15th August 2011

Daniel Hartshorne says...

Stuart, Cannot believe how poor Englands midfield currently is. Hape and Tindall have surely played Manu and Fluety into starting places. Where are the runners on shoulders? where are the off loads that Banahan and Hape are supposedly famed for? Without a game line breaker who will run through a tackle, free his arms and off load England will have no chance. I would even go as far as saying find a place for Charlie Sharples and his direct pace that if he can get in behind deffences he will cause problems.....Although i suppose Saturday could be the biggest bluff ever and England will shock us with sparkling back play...but then again......

Posted 16:41 15th August 2011

Nick Hughes says...

Stuart In his post match interview Martin Johnson talks once again about errors, errors, and yet more errors, but as Manager he is guilty of the cardinal sin of not seeing the wood from the trees...this England side (with the game against Australia last autumn being the only notable exception) is completely lacking balance, and more importantly anyone in the midfield with any craft, guile and creativity. It is not that these players do not exist in England, it is just that they were cast aside by this myopic management team who believes that bench press prowess and simple weights and measures is the way to select a test rugby XV - Geraghty, Barkley, Tait and further out-wide Strettle and Simpson-Daniel have all been overlooked in favour of Tindall, Hape, Banahan and Tuilagi. Johnson had the opportunity 4 years ago to blend all the talents available to meld them into a cohesive and balanced three-quarter line of power, speed and guile. He seems only to recognise the former attrribute and the results of this flawed selection system were plain to see on Saturday and in Dublin last March ¿ but what has a lock forward ever known about three-quarter play?...and I don¿t remember Brian Smith as a player who understood attacking back play either¿ Nick Hughes

Posted 16:34 15th August 2011

Rhys Williams says...

Stuart I don't think you have given teh Welsh defence any credit for the amazing display they showed. It is easy to say England lacked ideas, but when you are faced with such professional, organised and break through wall defence that England faced on Saturday I think you can see why the ideas left them. yes this wlesh side is not the welsh side of 2005 grand slam success, but we are still dangerous in attack when we have the ball, but we are now a team that is ready for whatever the world can throw at us. We have discovered some backbone to go with teh flair the wlesh backs have had for a number of years and its good too see. Of course they will not trouble New Zealand who just seem to be on a different planet playing like they are. But I don't think this welsh side will be humiliated by Fiji like they were 4 years ago, and South Africa should not take us lightley either after what Scotland did to them.

Posted 16:20 15th August 2011

Tim Smith says...

Stuart, I am so frustrated with the managment of England, tuilagi gets one game and is prbably not going to get another chance before the world cup. Why do we have such poor centers in the squad, tindall,hapee,flutey and banahan are all one dimensional and the frustrating part is we havent given anyone else a chance!! why cant we play foden Armitage and ashton in the same team and increase our options a little !!! Also am i the only person who is appalled that Sean Edwards one of Englands best coaches is coaching wales all because of the stupidity and shortsightedness off the RFU!!! lets get this world cup over with and get the right man for the job, preferably someone who has actually coached before!

Posted 16:06 15th August 2011

Nicky Gray says...

The fact that our best chance of success is by reverting to 10 man rugby proves that England has made no progress in the last four years. That fault lies squarely at the RFU, Martin Johnson and his coaching staff. As an England fan, I obviously want us to do well at the World Cup. However, I fear that if England scrapes their way to a semi final than the RFU will hand these guys a four year contract. After the World Cup, England needs an experienced manager; someone with a track record of success, a forward thinking coach. If that means selecting a foreign coach then we should. Personally, I would like us to go for Ewen McKenzie before the Australians sign him. Stuart, which coach would you like to see in charge of England after the World Cup?

Posted 15:50 15th August 2011

R T says...

Frankly, anyone who considered England contenders before Saturday's game were deluded. A mixed showing in the 6N does not mean we are world beaters. The defeat may even prove to be a blessing if the England camp can chieve the siege mentality that served us so well in RWC07. What it ought to do is explode a few myths.. namely that Flood is anything other than a journeyman, that Banahan has no place on an international rugby field, that Tuilagi already looks our best bet at centre, that Armitage should be tried at 13 and that we have no quality in the backrow. Scrum and lineout are steady but we cannot protect the ball properly and are desperate for a world class7...... like Warburton.... and even if fit, NOT Moody! It should also show Johnson to be wanting as a coach. Our major successes over the last 2 years - Ashton, Lawes, Foden were all picked through gritted teeth off the back of a concerted media campaign - come on Johnson, as things stand we are also rans, so give the talent a chance. That said, expect us to go further in this RWC than any of the other home nations... if the draw pans out (and it usually does), we have France in the quarters and Aus in the semis, two teams we know we can beat. So a final slot is a possibility. Hope springs eternal and Hape.... does not.

Posted 15:06 15th August 2011

J Stevens says...

How can Martin Johnson be described as risk averse? He is taking at least 10% of his squad players who haven't proved their fitness and another 10% who haven't proved their form. These aren't the risks I would take and I am now of the opinion that 33-1 is generous. The frustrating thing is there are genuine options in all the problem positions and from clubs who finished at the top end of the Premiership, took part in the Heineken Cup and have played for the England Saxons earlier in the summer.

Posted 13:58 15th August 2011

Peter Jones says...

If only Martin Johnson had stuck with Shane Geraghty when he was at the top of his game. The English attack would be spoilt for attacking options. This is the flair we are missing. I believe anyway that kicking should be shared, look at Australia with O'Connor and Cooper mixing the kicking responisibilites up. If only Geraghty was left to play his own game when he last played for England rather than having his hands tied! Oh what if! be nice to see england develop the attacking flair of the southern hemisphere...we ain't going to do this with the current pick of backs. So a structured game it is for the corld cup then...johnny kicks...the forwards push...the backs defend......and that's about it!

Posted 13:50 15th August 2011

Sean Johnson says...

Gone nowhere? You forget that this year England won the 6 Nations for the first time since 2003 and absolutely dismantled Australia last November. I think Stuart, it is time to get over your obsession with berating Jonny Wilkinson. It's old news, incorrect and everyone is a bit bored of it now. You are right, Wilkinson is no Carter. Wilkinson has bottle, and a World Cup winners medal. I'm not sure if you saw the Super 15 final, but both Cooper and Carter were terrible.

Posted 13:45 15th August 2011

Mark Courage says...

Dear Stuart, After that porous attacking showing we served up on Saturday, what were your feelings about England's lack of apparent ability in midfield, but more particularly the breakdown. It appears we don't have a fetcher of any note in the country, and this is feeding through to the national team, as we are getting turned over at every breakdown and seem to determined to either be, not fit enough to make any ruck, or, we don't have a backrow which can turn over ball consistently and as a result, we have next to no control on the game. Also, I would like to know your feeling about the centre's debate, and the reasons why Hape and Tindall are consistently picked? It just appears to me, they aren't even selected for their clubs (Olly Barkley, Henry Trinder respectively ahead), and personally I'd feel much happier with Owen Farrell and Manu Tuilagi at centre. What are your feelings on this bizzarre (infuriating) selection? Many thanks Mark

Posted 13:41 15th August 2011

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