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Rooney and Manchester United: bad week, great decade
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Tyler's starting stat - United we fall
I was at Old Trafford on Sunday to see Manchester United lose at home for the third time in their third different competition of the season. The FA Cup defeat to Leeds followed their Premier League loss to Aston Villa and their Champions League defeat to Beskitas.
In fact, in all of their seven defeats this season - the three mentioned above plus the losses to Burnley, Liverpool, Chelsea and Fulham - United have failed to score. So the message is Manchester United don't tend to score when they lose over 90 minutes. The last time they did so was last March's 4-1 defeat to Liverpool, although they did score in the Community Shield before losing on penalties to Chelsea.
Meanwhile, Leeds have now gone 16 games unbeaten and have lost just two of their 33 games this season, away to Millwall in League One and at home to Liverpool in the League Cup.
On a personal note, Jermaine Beckford is living the dream of all non-league players after his Old Trafford winner. The first time I met him was when I was coach at Walton & Hersham and we won 3-1 away to Wealdstone - although Beckford did score a late consolation goal for them.
TOP OF THE NOUGHTIES
Hi Martin. With the decade at an end, I'd be interested to see how the Premier League table would look if you took all of the games played in the Noughties. I'm sure Manchester United would be top, but I can't predict who'd be second. Would it be Arsenal, Chelsea or even Liverpool?
Craig, Cheshire
MARTIN SAYS: The boys at Opta have given us the table of the decade, which you can see below. As you guessed, Manchester United are clear winners with Chelsea in second place - although by a quirk of the fixture list in the first and last seasons of the Noughties they have in fact played three more games than their London rivals.
The table below tells the story, but here are a few observations about the decade:
Most wins: Manchester United (255)
Most draws: Aston Villa (125)
Most defeats: Middlesbrough (148)
Most goals: Manchester United (757)
Most goals conceded: Tottenham (513)
Best goal difference: Manchester United (441)
Worst goal difference: Sunderland (-160)
Premier League table - Jan 1 2000 - December 28 2009:
| Position | Team | P | W | D | L | F | A | GD | Pts |
| 1 | Manchester United | 381 | 255 | 67 | 59 | 757 | 316 | 441 | 832 |
| 2 | Chelsea | 382 | 232 | 92 | 58 | 682 | 294 | 388 | 788 |
| 3 | Arsenal | 379 | 226 | 95 | 58 | 748 | 356 | 392 | 773 |
| 4 | Liverpool | 380 | 204 | 94 | 82 | 621 | 333 | 288 | 704 |
| 5 | Aston Villa | 380 | 136 | 125 | 119 | 493 | 460 | 33 | 533 |
| 6 | Tottenham Hotspur | 381 | 145 | 92 | 144 | 530 | 513 | 17 | 527 |
| 7 | Everton | 379 | 141 | 101 | 137 | 476 | 476 | 0 | 524 |
| 8 | Newcastle United | 360 | 133 | 99 | 128 | 481 | 479 | 2 | 498 |
| 9 | Blackburn Rovers | 324 | 113 | 88 | 123 | 403 | 435 | -32 | 427 |
| 10 | Middlesbrough | 361 | 108 | 105 | 148 | 410 | 476 | -66 | 429 |
| 11 | Manchester City | 323 | 108 | 79 | 136 | 403 | 434 | -31 | 403 |
| 12 | Bolton Wanderers | 322 | 104 | 91 | 127 | 381 | 449 | -68 | 403 |
| 13 | Fulham | 323 | 100 | 91 | 132 | 368 | 431 | -63 | 391 |
| 14 | West Ham United | 305 | 102 | 73 | 130 | 364 | 444 | -80 | 379 |
| 15 | Charlton Athletic | 266 | 85 | 70 | 111 | 301 | 386 | -85 | 325 |
| 16 | Portsmouth | 248 | 76 | 60 | 112 | 276 | 346 | -70 | 288 |
| 17 | Southampton | 209 | 66 | 60 | 84 | 240 | 289 | -49 | 255 |
| 18 | Sunderland | 266 | 63 | 60 | 143 | 242 | 402 | -160 | 249 |
| 19 | Birmingham City | 210 | 61 | 61 | 88 | 218 | 273 | -55 | 244 |
| 20 | Leeds United | 170 | 67 | 38 | 65 | 239 | 237 | 2 | 239 |
| 21 | Wigan Athletic | 171 | 52 | 37 | 82 | 171 | 251 | -80 | 193 |
| 22 | Leicester City | 132 | 32 | 39 | 61 | 144 | 207 | -63 | 135 |
| 23 | West Bromwich Albion | 152 | 27 | 41 | 84 | 132 | 251 | -119 | 122 |
| 24 | Derby County | 132 | 24 | 33 | 75 | 117 | 236 | -119 | 105 |
| 25 | Ipswich Town | 76 | 29 | 15 | 32 | 98 | 106 | -8 | 102 |
| 26 | Reading | 76 | 26 | 13 | 37 | 93 | 113 | -20 | 91 |
| 27 | Stoke City | 57 | 17 | 15 | 25 | 53 | 78 | -25 | 66 |
| 28 | Coventry City | 57 | 14 | 12 | 31 | 57 | 95 | -38 | 54 |
| 29 | Hull City | 58 | 12 | 17 | 29 | 59 | 106 | -47 | 53 |
| 30 | Wolverhampton Wanderers | 58 | 12 | 16 | 30 | 55 | 113 | -58 | 52 |
| 31 | Bradford City | 57 | 10 | 15 | 32 | 53 | 109 | -56 | 45 |
| 32 | Sheffield United | 38 | 10 | 8 | 20 | 32 | 55 | -23 | 38 |
| 33 | Watford | 56 | 7 | 17 | 32 | 47 | 94 | -47 | 38 |
| 34 | Crystal Palace | 38 | 7 | 12 | 19 | 41 | 62 | -21 | 33 |
| 35 | Norwich City | 38 | 7 | 12 | 19 | 42 | 77 | -35 | 33 |
| 36 | Sheffield Wednesday | 19 | 6 | 4 | 9 | 22 | 25 | -3 | 22 |
| 37 | Burnley | 20 | 5 | 5 | 10 | 22 | 40 | -18 | 20 |
| 38 | Wimbledon | 18 | 3 | 2 | 13 | 15 | 39 | -24 | 11 |
DECADE'S DEADLIEST
Hi Martin. I know Alan Shearer is the highest scoring Premier League player of all time. But who was the top scorer of the last decade? Many thanks.
Stu
MARTIN SAYS: From January 1 2000 to December 31 2009, the Premier League's top goalscorer was Thierry Henry. The former Arsenal striker hit 169 goals, which was 56 clear of his nearest rival Robbie Keane. The only other players to have hit triple figures in the Premier League in the Noughties are Michael Owen (102) and Frank Lampard (100), the highest scoring midfielder of the decade.
Most goals - Jan 1 2000 - Dec 28 2009
| Player | Goals |
| Thierry Henry | 169 |
| Robbie Keane | 113 |
| Michael Owen | 102 |
| Frank Lampard | 100 |
| Ruud van Nistelrooy | 95 |
| Wayne Rooney | 94 |
| Alan Shearer | 93 |
| Jermain Defoe | 93 |
| Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink | 93 |
| Mark Viduka | 92 |
| Nicolas Anelka | 87 |
| James Beattie | 86 |
| Cristiano Ronaldo | 84 |
| Steven Gerrard | 75 |
| Emile Heskey | 74 |
| Yakubu | 73 |
| Louis Saha | 70 |
| Andrew Cole | 70 |
| Craig Bellamy | 70 |
TO GO FOURTH...
I have two questions for you Martin. After Liverpool's win against Villa the race for fourth is as tight as I can remember, but I'm only 15 so I guess you have one or two more seasons to remember! First what is the lowest number of points ever in the Premier League for a team finishing in fourth place? Maybe then you can find out what that season looked like at this stage so we can see if it's any tighter? Isn't it something like 60 points, so any of the top six or seven could still make it?
Ben Drotleff (Arsenal fan)
MARTIN SAYS: Liverpool managed to grab a Champions League spot with just 60 points in the 2003/04 season, finishing four points clear of Newcastle and Aston Villa but a huge 30 points behind Arsenal's invincible league winners. That is the lowest points total of any team finishing in fourth.
On New Year's Day that season, Liverpool were sixth with 26 points, but did have a game in hand on most of their rivals. This season's return of 33 points from 20 games is better than they achieved that year so that should provide grounds for optimism for Rafael Benitez's men.
Premier League table on New Year's Day 2003/04:
| Position | Team | Played | Won | Drawn | Lost | For | Against | Points |
| 1 | Manchester United | 19 | 15 | 1 | 3 | 38 | 13 | 46 |
| 2 | Arsenal | 19 | 13 | 6 | 0 | 35 | 12 | 45 |
| 3 | Chelsea | 19 | 13 | 3 | 3 | 36 | 16 | 42 |
| 4 | Charlton Athletic | 19 | 8 | 6 | 5 | 27 | 22 | 30 |
| 5 | Fulham | 19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 30 | 26 | 28 |
| 6 | Liverpool | 18 | 7 | 5 | 6 | 28 | 21 | 26 |
| 7 | Newcastle United | 19 | 6 | 8 | 5 | 26 | 22 | 26 |
| 8 | Southampton | 19 | 7 | 5 | 7 | 18 | 15 | 26 |
| 9 | Birmingham City | 18 | 7 | 5 | 6 | 16 | 20 | 26 |
| 10 | Aston Villa | 19 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 19 | 23 | 24 |
| 11 | Everton | 19 | 6 | 5 | 8 | 23 | 25 | 23 |
| 12 | Bolton Wanderers | 19 | 5 | 8 | 6 | 20 | 28 | 23 |
Below, I have listed the points totals for the fourth-placed finishers every season since the Premier League began. Remember the 'top four' only gained its importance in 2001/02 when England's quota of places in the Champions League was extended from three to four.
08/09: Arsenal - 72
07/08: Liverpool - 76
06/07: Arsenal - 68
05/06: Arsenal - 67
04/05: Everton - 61
03/04: Liverpool - 60
02/03: Chelsea - 67
01/02: Newcastle - 71
-------Champions League qualifying for top four-------
00/01: Leeds - 68
99/00: Liverpool - 67
98/99: Leeds - 67
97/98: Chelsea - 63
96/97: Liverpool - 68
95/96: Aston Villa 63
94/95: Liverpool - 74*
93/94: Arsenal - 71*
92/93: Blackburn - 71*
* 42-game season
YEAR OF THE GOAL
My next question is which team has scored the most goals in 2009, as a calendar year? My guess would be either Arsenal or Chelsea but as a Gunner I'll go with the mighty Arsenal! Thanks Martin!
Ben Drotleff (Arsenal fan)
MARTIN SAYS: You'd be right Ben. The Gunners are indeed the Premier League's top scorers for the calendar year with 86 goals. That puts them two goals clear of Manchester United and 13 goals clear of current Premier League leaders Chelsea. The Gunners also had fewer defeats than any other side in 2009 with just five.
Of the 17 sides that have played in the Premier League throughout the calendar year, Hull City and Wigan have scored the fewest, just 31 goals in total - that's almost three times fewer than Arsenal.
Premier League goals in 2009:
| 1. Arsenal (86) |
| 2. Man Utd (84) |
| 3. Liverpool (79) |
| 4. Chelsea (73) |
| 5. Tottenham (67) |
| 6. Man City (58) |
| 7. Everton (54) |
| 8. Sunderland (51) |
| 9. Aston Villa (50) |
| 10. West Ham (46) |
| 11. Fulham, Bolton (45) |
| 13. Blackburn (38) |
| 14. Stoke, Portsmouth (35) |
| 16. Hull, Wigan (31) |
| 18. Burnley (22) |
| 19. Birmingham, West Brom (20) |
| 21. Wolves (17) |
| 22. Newcastle (14) |
| 23. Middlesbrough (11) |
CHANGING OF THE GUARDS
Hi Martin. I've heard that Manchester United have changed their starting line-up in almost every game for the last couple of seasons. When was the last time they kept the same starting XI. And how does this compare to their rivals Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. I'd be interested to know if Fergie rotates more than Rafa!
Mandy White
MARTIN SAYS: With Sir Alex Ferguson likely to make wholesale changes in their next match following their FA Cup defeat to Leeds United, it would be fair to assume that will be the 100th consecutive game in which Ferguson has changed his line up.
The last time he named an unchanged team was when he stuck with the eleven which beat Barcelona in the second leg of their Champions League semi final in May 2008. The following game was against West Ham in the penultimate league match of that title-winning season.
So how does that compare to the other members of the so-called big four? Chelsea have changed their team for the last 33 matches - a long way short of Manchester United. The last time they named the same starting XI in successive matches was last May when the same players started against Arsenal and Blackburn. Guus Hiddink liked a consistent team selection, but Carlo Ancelotti is yet to name an unchanged side.
Arsenal have only gone 16 games without an unchanged line-up. Arsene Wenger named the same team in successive games against AZ Alkmaar and West Ham last October.
Meanwhile Rafael Benitez - who also once went 99 games without naming the same team - has rotated in the last nine games of this season. However, at the end of November he named the same starting XI against Everton as he did against Debrecen in the previous match.
On average United make 5.6 changes to their team from game to game - more than half the starting eleven, which is more than all their rivals. Chelsea make 4.9 changes per game, Arsenal make 4.7 and Liverpool make 3.4.
It is worth pointing out that all these changes are often dictated by the Champions League group games and the need to prioritise different competitions. No manager likes to play the same players in three big games in a week. If the season went Saturday to Saturday I'm sure there would be far fewer changes.
REDS VS THE DONS
Hi Martin, I think I know the answer to Liverpool's recent problems - Aberdeen FC. I am a supporter of both Liverpool and Aberdeen and since Rafa's arrival they never seem to both win on the same day. Can you clarify my thoughts by letting me know the percentages of times when they have both won on the same day. I really feel the percentage will be extremely low. Actually I don't think they often lose on the same day either but every time one of my teams plays in an early kick off if they win I fear for the other team conversely I get quietly confident if they lose.
Scott Wheeler, Aberdeen
MARTIN SAYS: Since Rafa Benitez's first competitive match in charge of Liverpool on August 10 2004, the Reds have played on the same day as Aberdeen a total of 114 times in all competitions. Both teams have won on the same day on 30 of those occasions - a percentage of 26.3.
Both teams have only lost on the same day five times in that period. So the good news for you Scott is that if one of your teams loses, there is only a 4.39 per cent chance that the other will lose as well. In fact, the 2007/08 and 2008/09 seasons were a golden spell for you, Scott, because there was not a single day in either season on which both of your sides lost. In that sense, your theory holds up because they very rarely lose on the same day.
However, the numbers don't really support your theory about one team winning and one team losing on the same day. Here are the combinations:
Aberdeen win/Liverpool lose: 13 days out of 114
Aberdeen lose/Liverpool win: 16 days out of 114
Together that adds up to 29 days out of 114 - a fraction over 25 per cent of the games played.
Tyler's teaser
Hit the video for this week's teaser and for the answers to last week's question. Send in your answers using the feedback form below... and don't forget to keep your questions coming.
Comments (28)
Kieran Murray (Chelsea fan) says...
Hi Martin, in the last few weeks Manchester United have got hugely over inflated amounts of added time when there wasn't huge amounts of stoppages like 5 against Leeds and 6 against Birmingham probably because they weren't winning. I want to know what is the average amount of stoppage time when they are winning, drawing and losing to see if Sir Alex is pulling strings with the 4th Official or not.
Posted 12:45 10th January 2010
Kieran Murray (Chelsea fan) says...
Hi Martin, as we all know Alex Ferguson has been around for a long time and a lot of current managers once played under him. I want to know what is his record against managers he has managed compared to managers he hasn't.
Posted 12:37 10th January 2010
Martin J (Liverpool fan) says...
Did you know that an English Player has not topped the Premier League scoring charts since Kevin Phillips registered 30 for Sunderland back in 1999/2000? I find that incredible. And in most seasons since, the highest scoring Englishman is a fair way off the Top Scorer of the League.
Posted 17:15 8th January 2010
Lukey Baby (Manchester United fan) says...
Hi Martin, In my opinion Dimitar Berbatov gets a lot of unfair criticism and whenever i fight his corner others argue he doesn't score goals and doesn't have enough assists to justify his starting place. That brings me to ask two closely related questions. 1. How many passes before the assist (the final pass before the assist is made) has Berbatov completed at hias time at Man Utd? 2. How many assists would he have made if his team mates had put away their chances? I'm assuming it's almost impossible to find the stats? Thanks
Posted 15:01 7th January 2010
Cain Bradley (Chelsea fan) says...
Hi Mr Tyler as an avid Chelsea fan i seem to be outnumbered on arguments so to settle an argument which premiership keeper has conceded the least goals on average this decade every game. Im sure it must be Ccech but my friends think Reina. Another topic of debate is the best right back currently in the premiership, Boswinga or Glen Johnson. So who on average each game is better. (Crosses, tackles, succesful runs, etc)
Posted 13:55 7th January 2010
Ben Flannery (Manchester United fan) says...
Anthony Carlin - that would be, becuase rooney is not a striker, he is a forward. there is a difference, Defoe is a goal scorer, Rooney is more of a creater, who also scores goals. i personally think Rooney would be better off as an attacking midfielder becuase he has such great vision, he likes a tackle and i really think dropping him in with berba off a main STRIKER, like a Dzeko or Eto'o, an out and out goal scorer, would offer united more than the way we play at the moment. but trying to compare Defoe and Rooney is bizarre?
Posted 12:58 7th January 2010
Andrew Workman (Liverpool fan) says...
Hi Martin, Fernando Torres broke the record for quickest Liverpool striker to 50 league goals but was 4th in the all time list behind Andy Cole, Alan Shearer and Ruud Van Nistlerooy - I'm curious what the result would be if you were to take out penalties and freekicks from equation as Torres doesn't take them for Liverpool.
Posted 11:31 7th January 2010
Wayne Linton (Arsenal fan) says...
I feel somebody has to mention arsenal as nobody has so far, ive got to tell u that it feels vey satisfying to be1 point behind chelsea providing we win our game in hand against bolton, especially after we where written of as no hopers after chelsea 3 - 0'd us, but one month later we have closed a huge 11 point defecit, baring in mind he have no rvp we sold adebeyor vela and eduardo havent been performing and bentdner is out injured aswell. Under these circumstances i feel weve done vey well indeed, and i know the word 'potential' has been mooted around for many years but i honestly feel that our sqaud will come into fruitation and win the league if not another competion this year.
Posted 11:06 7th January 2010
Alistair Norman (Manchester City fan) says...
Hi Martin, Carlos tevez wason fire for december with something like 8 goals in 8 games. Who has scored the most goals in december in the premier league since its inception?
Posted 10:08 7th January 2010
Mathew Markowicz (Blackburn Rovers fan) says...
Blackburn and Aston Villa will play each other 5 times this season, this got me wondering, What is the most amount of times two teams have played each other in one season?
Posted 09:16 7th January 2010
John O dwyer (Arsenal fan) says...
I find it funny i saw no Arsenal fan here saying how proud they are to be Arsenal fans at this time.Yes we have not won a league or cup in a few years.But tell me this are we worried .Are we throughing money on signings like Liverpool Man city and winning nothing.Are we playing excellant football.With the age of the Arsenal side when they win the league this season they will be in a position to dominate both medals and finance.Chelsea and Liverpools best players or 30+. Man U miss Ronaldo more than Arsenal miss Toure and Adebayor.So once this generation of Arsenal players win they will dominate and its only a matter of time.The only thing is time patience.....IN ARSENE WE TRUST
Posted 04:26 7th January 2010
Kojo Okudo (Manchester United fan) says...
Hey, Does anyone know which team in europe has the most penaties awarded in thier favour for the decade, the yr 09/10 thus far and of all time...i suspect it is A.C milan? pls get back at me cheers
Posted 01:23 7th January 2010
Blaine Fleet (Chelsea fan) says...
shame about anelka this season getting injured i think if he didnt get injured he would defiantly be up there in the top 3 goal scores also drogba is playing well but is not doing the job as striker at the moment which doesn't help in the climate chelsea are in.Still would put chelsea as premier league winners but will go down to last day united and man city and arsenal wont give up which is not suspected.As a chelsea fan though would still rather win europe then premier league but both would be amazing
Posted 00:52 7th January 2010
Malcolm Mc causland (Manchester United fan) says...
Point to Anthony Carlin. over the passed decade Jermaine Defoe has been involved in 270 premier league matches *roughly* compared to Rooneys 245 . so your point about Rooney playing soo much more couldnt be further wrong mate.
Posted 00:44 7th January 2010
Jamie Pattinson (Portsmouth fan) says...
Hi Martin, just congratulating Portsmouth, as we are offically better than Southampton. Pompey always knew we were, it just needed to be put into text!
Posted 23:37 6th January 2010
Michael Varty (Lyon fan) says...
Hi Martin, Can you explain to me why Louis Saha is stuck on Everton? Why is there not more interest in him? And why do they start Jo ahead of him? 70 goals surely should outweigh the injury issues.
Posted 21:48 6th January 2010
Mike Underhill (Bristol Rovers fan) says...
You have to remember Defoe has been around almost the whole of the decade. Rooney broke through late and didn't score many at Everton. I reckon Rooney would have as good, if not better goals per game ratio than Defoe
Posted 17:17 6th January 2010
Paul Spenceley (Chelsea fan) says...
Hi Martin, Peter Chec has been getting a lot of bad press recently. I would like to know how many goalkeepers currently playing in the premiere league, and how many who have ever played in the top division in England have a better ratio of goals let in per game played than Peter. Thanks
Posted 17:11 6th January 2010
Michael Betts (Liverpool fan) says...
HI Martin, I love your article. I was wondering how many points Steven Gerrard has won for Liverpool with his winning or equalising goals since he first broke into the first team? Thanks!
Posted 17:11 6th January 2010
Paul Sherlock (Aston Villa fan) says...
when villa played arsenal on the 27th december it was over one year since they had last played them (26th dec 08). Is this a one off or have their been other top flight teams that havent played each other for over 12 months?
Posted 16:35 6th January 2010













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