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Stuart Barnes' talking points: Second row worries for England

All Blacks captain Kieran Read leads the haka ahead of their win over South Africa
Image: Should opposition teams be allowed a second warm-up after the haka?

Stuart Barnes reflects on differing fortunes for West Country rivals Bath and Bristol, England's second row options, and whether the haka should be performed before teams warm up...

1. According to Eddie, "Mako Vunipola is galloping towards being a world class player". The Saracens prop has a skillset that can more than match that of the much-feted All Black front five, says the Anglo-Australian.

A few comments here - first of all, this 'world class' tag drives me mad. Anyone who has a few caps and is in decent nick is described as 'world class'. What is world class? Let's stick with someone who is one of the best two or three players in his position on the planet and eradicate all the 'world class' hyperbole.

Mako Vunipola is challengd by Leicester's Tom Youngs (right) and Ellis Genge
Image: Mako Vunipola produced another dynamic display against Leicester but blotted his copybook with a sin-binning

Judged on such criteria, where is Mako? He's world class, that's where, right up there with the best looseheads in the world. Jones is one of the few men who uses the phrase 'world class' sparingly.

Secondly, does he have superior skills to the New Zealand front five? Well, they are pretty special but so too is Mako and when English rugby understands how to pick the same sort of support lines we see in New Zealand, he is going to look even better.

Zebre players celebrate the final whistle at Murrayfield
Image: Zebre players celebrate after the final whistle at Murrayfield

2. Zebre lack world class players but they were good enough to beat Edinburgh away last weekend. Halloween came early for Duncan Hodge and his men as the previously hapless Italians produced the most stunning result of the Guinness PRO12 season to date.

In the space of a week, Edinburgh went from beating Harlequins (not a great team but neither are they bad) to losing to Zebre. That would have ruined a few accumulator bets.

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Rory Scannell scores a try just before half-time at the Kingspan Stadium
Image: Rory Scannell crosses for Munster's first try in Belfast

3. Let's stay on the subjects of away wins. Munster produced a pretty amazing effort to come from behind to beat Ulster at Ravenhill.

After the raw emotion of the Glasgow game and the build-up to that match, there must have been some sort of emotional comedown but Rassie Erasmus's men found enough within to beat an Ulster team who have become used to winning in Belfast.

Munster have shown much fortitude since the tragedy of Anthony Foley's death.

Johan Goosen in action against Bayonne
Image: Johan Goosen makes a carry during Racing's 16-3 win in Bayonne

4. No, we are not finished with away wins quite yet. Ring the bells. After five straight defeats on the road, the big budget boys of Racing 92, the champions of France, finally left Paris and returned with victory.

They have been among the most frustrating teams in Europe in this early part of the season but don't write them off quite yet, either in the Top 14 or Europe.

BRISTOL, ENGLAND - OCTOBER 30:  Andy Robinson, head coach of Bristol Rugby looks on during the Aviva Premiership match between Bristol Rugby and Sale Shark
Image: Andy Robinson's Bristol suffered their seventh straight Premiership loss on Sunday

5. But how close are we coming to writing off Bristol? Losing 31-13 at home to Sale was not Andy Robinson's plan after preparing his team for this day. They may have a rich owner but whether they have spent their money wisely has to be questionable.

It took Bristol a ridiculously long time to get promotion and if they are not careful they are going to be heading down ridiculously quickly. Another five tries conceded.

Henson injury 'serious'
Henson injury 'serious'

ndy Robinson fears Gavin Henson will be sidelined long-term after injuring his shoulder against Sale

What with Bristol City conceding a late equaliser against Barnsley, it was not a great weekend for owner, Steve Lansdown. The only consolation was both Newcastle and Worcester were walloped but neither side really expected to come away with anything from Coventry and Twickenham.

Semesa Rokoduguni scoring the match winner at Sandy Park in the 88th minute
Image: Semesa Rokoduguni breaks through to score the match-winner at Sandy Park

6. Bristol's great rivals, Bath, cemented their position at the other end of the table with a try nearer the 90th than 80th minute. Heartbreak for Exeter and ecstasy for Bath but this was not a particularly palatable way to spend a Sunday afternoon in front of the TV screen.

It might have been a thrilling finale but a lot of neutrals would have given up a lot earlier than a Bath team that is high on morale and defensive organisation but light on the creative stuff at the moment.

I know George Ford produced a classy pass for the winning try but Owen Farrell is in far better form at the moment.

Dave Attwood looks to break past Dave Dennis of Exeter
Image: Dave Attwood made 14 carries during Bath's win over Exeter

7. The reason I watched the game live instead of during my Monday fest of recorded rugby was because of an article I wrote Sunday morning for my Times column.

Dave Atwood and Charlie Ewels were central to a column that pondered the significance of Courtney Lawes' injury that could keep him out of the South Africa game. An injury or astonishing form would have demanded a rewrite so there I was, in front of the screen.

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From having the second-best second row combination in the world behind the All Blacks, England could be down to a third and fifth-choice with implications for the lineout and back row balance.

Luckily, there were no further injuries in the build-up to the Test match.

Ryan Crotty scores the match-winning try against Ireland on November 24, 2013
Image: Ryan Crotty scored a last-minute try against Ireland in 2013, with Aaron Cruden kicking the conversion to snatch a 24-22 win

8. Ireland must have been wondering whether New Zealand might just be vulnerable. The world record streak in the bag and a trip to the wonderful city of Chicago to defocus them, you never know.

Then I read Ben Smith recounting how lucky the All Blacks were to escape with a 24-22 victory against Ireland THAT DAY in Dublin. Steve Hansen is a canny man. Ireland were the second best team in the world back then and the All Blacks are going to be treating them seriously in Chicago.

If you are heading to Windy City, find an hour or three for the Chicago Institute of Art if you like that kind of thing. It's one hell of a gallery.

All Blacks captain Kieran Read leads the haka ahead of their win over South Africa
Image: Should opposition teams be allowed a second warm-up after the haka?

9. Is the haka an unfair advantage for New Zealand? Of course it is.

I read online that Brian O'Driscoll thinks a three or four-minute warm up AFTER the haka is a good way to allow the passive opposition team to prepare and bring the psyched-up Kiwis down from their high.

Anything is better than blowing a bit of grass in the wrong direction.

Cheika injured by Folau
Cheika injured by Folau

Israel Folau revealed as the player who damaged Michael Cheika's shoulder

10. Wales have a great chance of a rare victory against one of the southern hemisphere teams. Australia showed some improvement in the latter part of the Rugby Championship and have a recent runout against New Zealand to their name but really, neither they nor the Springboks have looked near their best all year.

On paper, Wales have to be fancied to win. In a Lions year, the more wins for British and Irish nations against Rugby Championship opposition the better; an Irish win would be useful for morale, wouldn't it?

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Meanwhile, the Springboks play the Barbarians at Wembley. We'll be covering this one. Alistair Coetzee needs a win and decent performance to quell dissatisfaction and send them to Twickenham in good heart.

Will Greenwood is assisting Robbie Deans and the Barbarians. We'll be expecting the Barbarians attack to be at their brilliant and entertaining best for the cameras, Will.

Enjoy your week,

Stuart

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