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Bale v Ronaldo

Martin's back with some statistical gems...

Martin Tyler - Martin Tyler Posted 14th February 2013 view comments

Martin Tyler's stats and facts column is here!

Every week on skysports.com he answers your questions and offers you statistical gems from what he's seen as he tours the world commentating for Sky Sports.

Sky Sports' voice of football and his back-up team of experts want your queries on all things statistical and historical from the beautiful game.

Bale and Ronaldo: how do they compare?

Bale and Ronaldo: how do they compare?

So if you have spotted something from a match or have been stumped by a pub quiz question, simply email skysportsclub@bskyb.com and he will do his best to help.

Tyler's teaser

But as usual we'll kick off with a question for YOU. Click play to see this week's Tyler's Teaser.

Martin's Starting Stat

I've just returned home from Madrid where I saw Manchester United extend their unbeaten record to 15 games in all competitions.

Danny Welbeck scored only his second goal in 28 appearances this season (and his first since the home clash with Stoke on October 20) and his goal marked only the second time in this season's Champions League that Manchester United have scored first; the only other occasion was their first match of the campaign - a 1-0 win at home to Galatasaray.

It was the 17th header that Manchester United have scored this season, in all competitions, and their Premier League average from corners is the best of any club in a top European League with a goal every 12 corners. It was also the 100th game they have played since their last 0-0 draw, which came at Newcastle in April 2011.

At the other end, Cristiano Ronaldo's scored his 301st goal combined for Real Madrid and Manchester United and he extended his record with his current club to 183 goals from 180 appearances. It was also the 300th goal that Manchester United have conceded in all European competitions and extended Real's unbeaten home record (all competitions) to 34 games.

Sir Alex Ferguson still hasn't beaten Jose Mourinho away from home (D4 L3) and the all-time record between the two is 15 games with six wins for Mourinho, three for Ferguson and now three draws.

GREAT AGGREGATES
Hi Martin. It's a pity that most people have been condemning Manchester City for their admittedly poor performance on Saturday but let's give credit to Southampton and remember that the Saints also ran them very close in their opening day 3-2 defeat at the Etihad. Had the fixtures been a two-legged affair, Southampton would have effectively "won" 5-4 on aggregate (a 3-1 win and a 3-2 defeat). How often has a newly promoted team beaten the defending champions "on aggregate" over the course of the two fixtures in a season? Assume that the "away goals rule" applies. Keep up the excellent work, both column and commentary! Best regards, Arjun Kudva (Manchester United fan)

MARTIN SAYS: Southampton became only the 13th newly-promoted side to beat the defending champions in a one-off Premier League game and the first since Burnley shocked Manchester United back in August 2009. The games in question are as follows (home team in capitals):

DateChampionsPromoted SideScore
August 22, 1992LeedsMIDDLESBROUGH4-1
October 3, 1992LeedsIPSWICH TOWN4-2
December 26, 1992LeedsBLACKBURN3-1
December 17, 1994MANCHESTER UNITEDNottingham Forest2-1
August 26, 1995BlackburnBOLTON2-1
September 30, 1995BlackburnMIDDLESBROUGH2-0
March 8, 1997Manchester UnitedSUNDERLAND2-1
April 5, 1997MANCHESTER UNITEDDerby County3-2
October 20, 2001MANCHESTER UNITEDBolton2-1
January 17, 2004Manchester UnitedWOLVES1-0
April 17, 2004Manchester UnitedPORTSMOUTH1-0
August 19, 2009Manchester UnitedBURNLEY1-0
February 9, 2013Manchester CitySOUTHAMPTON3-1

Southampton became the fifth newly-promoted side to win outright on "aggregate" against the champions after Ipswich v Leeds (1992/93), Nottingham Forest v Man Utd (1994/95), Middlesbrough v Blackburn (1995/96) and Derby v Manchester United (1996/97). As you can see from the list below, two further sides would have won on "away goals" and a further two clashes ended up as draws with neither side scoring more away goals.

SeasonDefending championsPromoted teamResultsAggregate score
1992/93LeedsIpswichLost 4-2 & Won 1-04-3 to Ipswich
1993/94Man UtdNewcastleDrew 1-1 & Drew 1-12-2 draw
1994/95Man UtdNottingham ForestDrew 1-1 & lost 2-13-2 to Forest
1995/96BlackburnMiddlesbroughLost 2-0 & Won 1-0 2-1 to Middlesbrough
1996/97Man UtdDerbyDrew 1-1 & Lost 3-24-3 to Derby
1997/98Man UtdBoltonDrew 0-0 & Drew 1-11-1 (Bolton win on away goals)
2003/04Man UtdWolvesWon 1-0 & Lost 1-01-1 draw
2010/11ChelseaNewcastleDrew 1-1 & Drew 2-23-3 (Newcastle win on away goals)
2012/13Man CitySouthamptonWon 3-2 & Lost 3-14-3 to Southampton

It's also worth noting that Steven Davis scored in both games against Manchester City and they remain his only two goals for Southampton.

RYAN MIGHTY
Hi Martin. I've loved listening to your commentary over the last 15 years I've watched football regularly on Sky Sports. I'm a massive fan and you just make the games that extra bit special. I also make sure to read your blog every week, too. However, this time I would like to pick your brain a bit. Ryan Giggs made history again, by scoring his first goal of the season and in doing so made it a goal in 23 consecutive league seasons. It came against Everton on Sunday. My question is - which teams has Giggs scored the most goals against? A table would be nice, just to see. Also, as a bonus question, is there a way of seeing a table that shows the most goals for certain players against one team in the Premier League (if that makes sense?) Many thanks and keep up the good work. Mark from North Yorkshire

MARTIN SAYS: The boys at Opta have broken down all of Ryan Giggs' Premier League goals for you below. As you can see, in terms of this competition there's only one side that has been on the receiving end of more Giggs goals than Everton - and that's Spurs. He has scored 10 of his 108 Premier League goals against them.

As you can see from our list, Giggs has scored against 34 of the 44 teams to play in the Premier League - but he could take that tally to 35 if he scores against Swansea City on the penultimate day of the season.

VersusAppearancesGoals
Tottenham3610
Everton277
Middlesbrough237
Southampton217
Newcastle315
Aston Villa324
Birmingham124
Bolton234
Coventry City154
Fulham174
Liverpool374
Norwich94
Nottingham Forest94
Charlton143
Leeds183
Oldham43
QPR93
West Ham213
Wimbledon123
Barnsley22
Blackburn292
Chelsea292
Derby County112
Sheffield Wednesday92
Sunderland142
Watford32
Arsenal341
Bradford City21
Ipswich Town81
Manchester City281
Portsmouth111
Stoke51
West Brom81
Wigan101
Blackpool10
Burnley10
Crystal Palace70
Hull City20
Leicester120
Reading30
Sheffield United60
Swansea20
Swindon Town20
Wolves20

To answer your other question, the team that has conceded the most Premier League goals to a single player is Leeds United, who incredibly have been on the receiving end of 20 Alan Shearer strikes. Meanwhile, Everton might be one of Ryan Giggs' favourite teams to score against, but they have conceded a whopping 16 goals to both Shearer and Les Ferdinand during the Premier League era.

Below are the players to have netted more than a dozen Premier League goals against a single opponent:

PlayerOpponentGoals
Alan ShearerLeeds20
Les FerdinandEverton16
Alan ShearerEverton16
Alan ShearerCoventry14
Alan ShearerSouthampton14
Alan ShearerTottenham14
Michael OwenNewcastle13
Alan ShearerSheffield Wednesday13
Michael OwenWest Ham13

CARRA CLEANS UP
Dear Martin. After hearing the news that Jamie Carragher announced that he is retiring at the end of the season, it got me thinking. What Premier League defender has kept the most clean sheets in their career. Certainly Carragher would be up there near the top, along with players such as Terry and Ferdinand. Maybe your friends at Opta can help me out, Alan Smith (Liverpool fan)

MARTIN SAYS: Your predictions are spot on because the three defenders you mention have been involved in more Premier League clean sheets than any other player. Jamie Carragher currently has 193 to his name and could retire by becoming the first defender to record 200 Premier League clean sheets if Liverpool can finish the season in style.

His nearest rival is Manchester United's Rio Ferdinand, who has 184 clean sheets to his name, followed by Terry with 177. Please note that Opta's definition of a clean sheet requires the defender to play the full 90 minutes - so if he is substituted on or off then the clean sheet will not be recorded here.

Defenders with the most clean sheets in Premier League history:

DefenderClean Sheets
Jamie Carragher193
Rio Ferdinand184
John Terry177
Sol Campbell160
Gary Neville155
Gareth Southgate137
Ashley Cole137
Nigel Winterburn131
Denis Irwin129
Lee Dixon128

BALE VERSUS RONALDO
Hi there Martin, love the column every week I have to say. Just wanted to know if you could help me out with a question I have? I saw Jamie Redknapp on Sky the other week and Jeff Stelling both comment that Gareth Bale may be better than Cristiano Ronaldo. Ronaldo played in this league and I'm sure forced one of the England's best ever strikers (Wayne Rooney) to play out of position in the 2007/2008 season for Man United where Ronaldo was the same age as Bale is now. Can you please put up the stats of how both of them contribute to their team in terms of goals and assists. Thank you Martin look forward to reading more columns from you on the future and hopefully you can answer this question. Moses Ologunja (Arsenal fan)

MARTIN SAYS: Cristiano Ronaldo played six seasons in English football from the age of 18 to 23. Gareth Bale is currently mid-way through his sixth season and made his first appearance at around the same age, so it is possible to follow their progression, though it must remembered that Ronaldo was playing for a Manchester United side that was playing for the title each season, while Bale has been playing for a Tottenham side that has not had the same aspirations - and was also played as a left-back in his early years!

Season One (age 18) - Ronaldo provided four goals and two assists as Manchester United finished third. Injury-hit Bale offered two goals in his eight games as Spurs finished 11th, but did not play in a single victory.

RONALDO (2003/04)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
291548441838

BALE (2007/08)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
861520044

Season Two (age 19) - Five goals and four assists for Ronaldo in his second season, but Bale didn't manage a goal, assist or victory in his 16 Spurs appearances.

RONALDO (2004/05)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
3324245418114

BALE (2008/09)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
16993000511

Season Three (age 20) - Bale finally ended his long run in a Spurs shirt without a win and was responsible for three goals and five assists in 23 appearances as Tottenham qualified for the Champions League. Ronaldo played 33 league games for Manchester United that year, scoring nine times and assisting a further six.

RONALDO (2005/06)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
332284962175

BALE (2009/10)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
231707351346

Season four (age 21) - Both players won the PFA Player of the Year Award in their fourth Premier League seasons. Ronaldo had more impact in front of goal with Bale's most notable performances coming in the Champions League. It's worth noting that Ronaldo went 26 games without scoring in that competition, but Bale scored in his second game of the tournament proper and got a hat-trick in his third match, away at Inter Milan.

RONALDO (2006/07)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
3427901782545

BALE (2010/11)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
3024517111136

Season five (age 22) - Ronaldo enjoyed an astonishing 31-goal season, earning him the Golden Boot and the PFA Player of the Year Award. Bale contributed towards 19 goals as Tottenham finished fourth in the Premier League table.

RONALDO (2007/08)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
3427473162563

BALE (2011/12)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
3632179101998

Season six (age 23) - Ronaldo managed 18 goals in his sixth Premier League campaign, which saw Manchester United emerge as champions. Tottenham are unlikely to win the league, but Bale is on track to equal Ronaldo's goal haul, having scored 13 with 12 games still to go

RONALDO (2008/09)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
3327491862553

BALE (2012/13 so far)

Games playedMins playedGoalsAssistsWinsDrawsLosses
2219341311264

TARGET PRACTICE
Hi Martin, I am curious how many goals Man City have conceded in relation to a percentage of shot on target against. Then I would like to know what the comparison is to other Premier League teams. I am a City fan and it seems whenever a team has three or four shots on target against us they convert the vast majority of the time (whilst at the other end we tend to be more wasteful). I can't remember a single game where Joe Hart has made more than one or two decent saves or kept us in a game this season. If this is the case I don't know whether we can say it is bad luck or bad play. Thanks, Steve.

MARTIN SAYS: Manchester City have allowed fewer shots on target than any other Premier League team this season - just 69 - and so it's no surprise to see they have conceded the fewest goals (24). As you can see from our table from Opta below, 34.8% of the shots on target have ended up as goals, which is the sixth highest conversion rate in the division. In fact the highest is Saturday's opponents Southampton who have conceded from 38.5% on the shots they've allowed on their goal this term. That contrasts heavily with Swansea who have conceded from just 21.5% of the shots on target against them in the league. The Swansea goalkeepers have had a lot of work to do!

TeamConcededShots on Target% shots on target conceded
Southampton4511738.5%
Wigan5113537.8%
Aston Villa5013537.0%
Liverpool349436.2%
Tottenham308634.9%
Manchester City246934.8%
Newcastle4613334.6%
Everton329932/3%
Reading4815131.8%
Norwich4012631.7%
Stoke3110130/7%
Fulham4214329.4%
QPR4114029.3%
West Brom4114029.2%
West Ham3813627.9%
Manchester United3111626.7%
Arsenal2910926.6%
Sunderland3413525.2%
Chelsea2811424.6%
Swansea2913521.5%

We also asked Opta to give us the data for the other end of the pitch to see how many shots on target are converted into goals by each team. Manchester United have the best record in this respect with more than 41% of their efforts on goal hitting the back of the net. That contrasts heavily with QPR, who have scored with less than 19% of their shots on target.

TeamScoredShots on Target% shots on target conceded
Manchester United6215141.1%
Reading843339.3%
Chelsea5514438.2%
Arsenal5014135.5%
Southampton3610335.0%
West Brom3410034.0%
Stoke268132.1%
Liverpool4413931.7%
Swansea3812430.6%
Fulham3611930.3%
Manchester City4815930.2%
Aston Villa258928.1%
Wigan3010728.0%
Sunderland2810028.0%
West Ham2910727.1%
Tottenham4416426.8%
Everton4015026.7%
Norwich259426.6%
Newcastle3413225.8%

These statistics support the theory that it's about quality of shots, rather than quantity and brings to mind the famous story attributed to the former Manchester United and Sheffield Wednesday forward Albert Quixall. He was once apparently told that he had to have 10 shots every game and allegedly, very early on in a game he shot from very long range high over bar and then went over to the bench and held up one finger. He clearly believed that quality was more important than quantity!

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