Manchester matters
Wednesday 25 April 2012 15:21, UK
There's a Manchester theme as Martin Tyler brings you stats on refs, goal difference and more...
Martin brings you a tricky teaser. Can you get the answer?
Martin Tyler's stats and facts column is here! Every week he will be here to offer you statistical gems to make your day, impress your mates and, on occasion, settle the odd bet. Sky Sports' voice of football and his back-up team of experts are here to answer your questions and queries on all things statistical and historical from the beautiful game. If you have spotted something from a game or have been stumped by a pub quiz question, simply email skysportsclub@bskyb.com and he will do his best to help.Tyler's Starting Stat - Molineux misery for Wolves
I was at Molineux on Sunday to see Wolves relegated from the top division for the seventh time, as they suffered their ninth consecutive home Premier League defeat (and 10th in all competitions) at the hands of Manchester City. They have lost 15 times at home in 2011/12, winning only one of their last 21 Premier League games, taking nine points out of 63 and only two points from their last 11 league games - away at Newcastle and Sunderland. This came after they won their opening two matches and were briefly top in August. Since then they've won just three of their 33 fixtures. There were some nice round figures during the game: Sylvan Ebanks-Blake made his 200th league career appearance, Joleon Lescott made his 100th Man City appearance, Nigel De Jong reached 100 Premier League appearances and Pablo Zabaleta made his150th Man City appearance;100 of those in the Premier League. Sergio Aguero's scored his 22nd league goal and is one behind Carlos Tevez's best ever Premier League total for a Man City player. It was the fourth time Aguero and Tevez have started together in the Premier League and they have scored 12 goals between them in those four games (eight from Aguero). City have still only conceded six first-half goals this season. That was equal with Man Utd but Nikica Jelavic became the seventh to score against Man Utd in the opening 45 minutes of a game. That leads us nicely to our first question...GOING FOUR MAN UTD
As a proud Everton fan, I'd like to know how many sides have scored four goals against Manchester United the Premier League era? I can't imagine it would be very many, especially at Old Trafford? Thanks, Alistair (Everton fan) MARTIN SAYS: Only 11 teams have hit four goals (or more) against Manchester United in the 769 games they have played in the Premier League to date - and only three have done so at Old Trafford. Tottenham were the first team to put four Premier League goals past Man United on New Year's Day 1996 with a 4-1 win at White Hart Lane and six further teams, including Everton on Sunday have hit exactly four goals against them. We've seen two teams put five past Sir Alex Ferguson's men - Newcastle beat them 5-0 at St James' Park in October 1996 and Chelsea won by the same scoreline at Stamford Bridge in 1999. I was there on both occasions. We have also famously seen them concede six twice - a shock 6-3 defeat at Southampton in October 1996 and this season's famous 6-1 thrashing by Manchester City at Old Trafford. Indeed, City are one of two teams to have put four past United twice (having also beaten them 4-1 in March 2004). The other is Newcastle (5-0 in October 1996 and 4-3 in September 2001) United have conceded four at home twice this season - to City and Everton. Before the start of this campaign they had only conceded four goals once in a Premier League home game - a 4-1 loss to Liverpool in March 2009. The first eight times Man United conceded four or more in the Premier League were in away games. The last three occasions have all been at home. Plus, as you'll notice from the table below. Everton have become the first side to score four against Man United and not win the game!
| 22/04/2012 | Everton | 4 | 4 | A | D |
| Date | Team | For | Against | Venue | Result |
| 01/01/1996 | Tottenham Hotspur | 4 | 1 | H | W |
| 20/1019/96 | Newcastle United | 5 | 0 | H | W |
| 26/10/1996 | Southampton | 6 | 3 | H | W |
| 03/10/1999 | Chelsea | 5 | 0 | H | W |
| 15/09/2001 | Newcastle United | 4 | 3 | H | W |
| 14/03/2004 | Manchester City | 4 | 1 | H | W |
| 29/10/2005 | Middlesbrough | 4 | 1 | H | W |
| 01/02/2006 | Blackburn Rovers | 4 | 3 | H | W |
| 14/03/2009 | Liverpool | 4 | 1 | A | W |
| 23/10/2011 | Manchester City | 6 | 1 | A | W |
NOT ENOUGH FOUR FERGIE
Hi Martin, brilliant column as usual. In light of Manchester United's draw with Everton, have United ever scored four goals at Old Trafford and NOT won, since the Premier League's inception? Steven Ellerbeck (Manchester City fan) MARTIN SAYS: Our friends at Opta have a very simple answer to this one for you. Sunday's game was the first time in the Premier League era that Manchester United have scored four goals in a game and failed to win. In fact, the last time that they scored 4+ in a league game and didn't win before last weekend was on December 7, 1974 - when they drew 4-4 away at Sheffield Wednesday. A bit like with Wayne Rooney, Lou Macari scored twice but it wasn't enough to secure the three points. United's other scorers that day were Stewart Houston and Stuart Pearson. The scorers for Sheffield Wednesday that day were David Sunley (2), Bernard Shaw and Colin Harvey. Incredibly, after scoring four goals in that game Sheffield Wednesday only managed five more in the remaining 21 games of that season! One of those goals was by Eric Potts in a 1-0 win at Southampton on December 28 and was the first goal I ever commentated on for television! In fact, that was their only win in the rest of that season. In their following 17 games Sheffield Wednesday drew three and lost 14 and finished bottom of Division Two. I always tell people that after my first game on December 28 the winners didn't win another game all season! They only scored two goals in those 17 games too!
FOUR GOALS... BUT NOT THREE POINTS
Hello Martin, big fan here! Make it a point to read your column every week. Being a die-hard Man Utd fan, I was absolutely gutted to watch them let slip a two-goal lead this weekend. Could you tell me what is the record for most goals scored by any side in a Premier League game without getting the win? I would put my money on 4 because I can recall many instances where teams have scored 4 and yet have drawn or lost, like Arsenal 4-4 Spurs, that unforgettable Newcastle 4-4 Arsenal, Portsmouth 7-4 Reading and the recent Man Utd 4-4 Everton. Cheers! Anup Madhava Kumar (Manchester United fanatic) MARTIN SAYS: The answer is indeed four. According to Opta, no side in the history of the Premier League has scored five goals and failed to win a game. Sunday's game was the 13th 4-4 draw we have seen in the Premier League and therefore there are 26 teams in this list who have scored four goals and failed to win. Man United and Everton have joined this list for the first time. 22/02/1995: Aston Villa 4-4 Leicester City
24/10/1999: Everton 4-4 Leeds
21/04/2000: Bradford 4-4 Derby
19/11/2001: Charlton 4-4 West Ham
22/02/2004: Tottenham 4-4 Leicester
22/01/2005: Norwich 4-4 Middlesbrough
01/10/2007: Tottenham 4-4 Aston Villa
26/12/2007: Chelsea 4-4 Aston Villa
19/03/2008: Tottenham 4-4 Chelsea
29/10/2008: Arsenal 4-4 Tottenham
21/04/2009: Liverpool 4-4 Arsenal
05/02/2011: Newcastle 4-4 Arsenal
22/04/2012: Man Utd 4-4 Everton We have also seen five teams lose Premier League games after scoring four goals - including Reading twice! 09/04/1994: Norwich 4-5 Southampton
12/02/2000: West Ham 5-4 Bradford
13/11/2004: Tottenham 4-5 Arsenal
29/09/2007: Portsmouth 7-4 Reading
29/12/2009: Tottenham 6-4 Reading As an aside, if you look back to 1922 you can find evidence of a team scoring seven goals in an FA Cup match and still losing. St. Albans lost 8-7 against Dulwich in the fourth qualifying round of the FA Cup - and one player, Billy Minter, scored seven goals yet still ended up on the losing side!
UP TWO MAN U
Dear Martin. After the amazing game between Manchester United and Everton at the weekend I came up with a question for your column. How many times have Man United been two goals ahead in the Premier League and not won the game? Andy (Liverpool fan) MARTIN SAYS: Everton became only the 10th side to claw back a two-goal (or more) lead against Manchester United and take a draw - and the third to do so at Old Trafford after West Brom in October 2010 and Chelsea in September 2003. However, it wasn't the first time they have denied United in this fashion, as they came back from 3-1 down to draw 3-3 at Goodison Park with two injury-time goals last season. Manchester United have never lost a Premier League game having led by two goals, but they have drawn once after being three goals ahead. That was at Anfield in January 1994 when they took a 3-0 lead against Liverpool through Denis Irwin, Steve Bruce and Ryan Giggs, only to be pegged back by a Nigel Clough brace and one from Neil Ruddock. An early Sky Sports classic! However, as you'll see from the table below, Man Utd have never lost after leading a game by two goals. Teams to have come back from two-goals or more to get a result in the Premier League against Man Utd:
| 22/04/2012 | Manchester United | Everton | 4 | 4 | H | 2 |
| Date | Team | Opponent | For | Against | Venue | Max Goals Ahead |
| 04/01/1994 | Manchester United | Liverpool | 3 | 3 | A | 3 |
| 08/12/1996 | Manchester United | West Ham United | 2 | 2 | A | 2 |
| 12/12/1998 | Manchester United | Tottenham Hotspur | 2 | 2 | A | 2 |
| 05/05/1999 | Manchester United | Liverpool | 2 | 2 | A | 2 |
| 26/08/2000 | Manchester United | West Ham United | 2 | 2 | A | 2 |
| 23/09/2000 | Manchester United | Chelsea | 3 | 3 | H | 2 |
| 09/12/2000 | Manchester United | Charlton Athletic | 3 | 3 | A | 2 |
| 11/09/2010 | Manchester United | Everton | 3 | 3 | A | 2 |
| 16/10/2010 | Manchester United | West Bromwich Albion | 2 | 2 | H | 2 |
MAKING THE DIFFERENCE
Hi Martin. Thanks again for a great column and clearing up all those disputes and nagging questions! Here's one re goal difference. It's highly likely Man City could finish with the best goal difference yet still only end up with a runner's-up medal this season - how many times has this happened before, whereby the team with the best goal difference haven't finished as the Premier League champions? Thanks again and best regards, Neil Ibbitson MARTIN SAYS: Manchester City would certainly not be the first team to endure the frustration of finishing second in the Premier League to a team that has a worse goal difference. It's happened on five previous occasions - all involving Manchester United. In 1995, United had an eight-goal superior difference to Blackburn but one fewer point than the champions that year. Two seasons later United finished with a goal difference of 32 compared to Newcastle's 33 but Sir Alex Ferguson's team had five more points on the board. The following year United were second to Arsenal despite a whopping 12-goal superior goal difference to the eventual champions. However the table was reversed in 2003 when United won the league with runners-up Arsenal on a better goal difference. The last time such an anomaly has occurred was in 2009 when Liverpool finished second to United, who took the title despite an inferior goal-difference to their great rivals. The team with the best goal difference has finished in the top two in each Premier League season. However, a good goal difference doesn't necessarily equate to success. Norwich finished third in 1993 with a goal difference of -4, the highest a team has finished on a negative tally, while Everton secured a Champions League place in 2005 with a -1 goal difference.
| 1993/94 | Manchester United | 42 | Champions |
| 1994/95 | Manchester United | 49 | Second |
| 1995/96 | Manchester United | 38 | Champions |
| 1996/97 | Newcastle | 33 | Second |
| 1997/98 | Manchester United | 47 | Second |
| 1998/99 | Manchester United | 43 | Champions |
| 1999/2000 | Manchester United | 52 | Champions |
| 2000/01 | Manchester United | 48 | Champions |
| 2001/02 | Arsenal | 43 | Champions |
| 2002/03 | Arsenal | 43 | Second |
| 2003/04 | Arsenal | 47 | Champions |
| 2004/05 | Chelsea | 57 | Champions |
| 2005/06 | Chelsea | 50 | Champions |
| 2006/07 | Manchester United | 56 | Champions |
| 2007/08 | Manchester United | 58 | Champions |
| 2008/09 | Liverpool | 50 | Second |
| 2009/10 | Chelsea | 71 | Champions |
| 2010/11 | Manchester United | 39 | Champions |
| Premier League season | Top goal-difference | Goal difference | Place |
| 1992/93 | Manchester United | 36 | Champions |
REF WATCH
Hi Martin. With Andre Marriner the referee for the big Manchester derby next Monday is there any chance you could compare the results both teams have had when Andre has been refereeing the game. I think he was the referee for the match last season that Man Utd won with Rooney's bicycle kick. Many thanks. Kevin Riordan (Manchester Utd fan) MARTIN SAYS: We've asked Opta to take a look at the Manchester United and Manchester City games that Andre Mariner has officiated in the last three seasons. He has taken charge of seven City games, of which they have won four, drawn one and lost two - including that derby defeat you referred to last season. He has only sent off one Manchester City player in that time - Aleksandar Kolarov in the 1-0 defeat to Bolton in December 2010. This will be the first City game he has taken charge of this season. Andre Marriner in charge of Man City games since 2009/10:
| Date | Opponent | Venue | Goals for | Goals against | Result | Yellow | Red | Opposition yellow | Opposition red |
| 19/12/2009 | Sunderland | Etihad Stadium | 4 | 3 | W | 2 | 0 | 2 | 1 |
| 16/01/2010 | Everton | Goodison Park | 0 | 2 | L | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 14/08/2010 | Tottenham Hotspur | White Hart Lane | 0 | 0 | D | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 25/09/2010 | Chelsea | Etihad Stadium | 1 | 0 | W | 2 | 0 | 3 | 0 |
| 04/12/2010 | Bolton Wanderers | Etihad Stadium | 1 | 0 | W | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 |
| 12/02/2011 | Manchester United | Old Trafford | 1 | 2 | L | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| 25/04/2011 | Blackburn Rovers | Ewood Park | 1 | 0 | W | 3 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| 26/02/2012 | Norwich City | Carrow Road | 2 | 1 | W | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| Date | Opponent | Venue | Goals for | Goals against | Result | Yellows | Reds | Opposition yellow | Opposition reds |
| 12/09/2009 | Tottenham Hotspur | White Hart Lane | 3 | 1 | W | 1 | 1 | 3 | 0 |
| 25/10/2009 | Liverpool | Anfield | 0 | 2 | L | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| 24/04/2010 | Tottenham Hotspur | Old Trafford | 3 | 1 | W | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 24/10/2010 | Stoke City | Britannia Stadium | 2 | 1 | W | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| 12/02/2011 | Manchester City | Old Trafford | 2 | 1 | W | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| 19/03/2011 | Bolton Wanderers | Old Trafford | 1 | 0 | W | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| 10/09/2011 | Bolton Wanderers | Reebok Stadium | 5 | 0 | W | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
| 15/10/2011 | Liverpool | Anfield | 1 | 1 | D | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
